:eek: Enough with the Paladin already. el critico’s already driving us nuts going on about it, don’t you start. 
What?
I mean …huh?
Purifier alone is almost broken.
“The weakest” does not mean “weak”. I’m in agreement that demo close to the least synergistic class (perhaps tied with nightblade) Sabo, Defiler, and Pyromancer all have sustained survivability problems compared to the stronger class combos out there, and they underperform in crucible as well. Saying demo is the least synergistic class does not imply it has no synergies, so you listing the synergies it DOES have is a moot point.
Once again, I’m not saying demo is bad or that all of its class combos are bad. If you don’t think demo is the least synergistic class, which would you pick?
Nightblade is another option I could see for least synergistic class, especially since FG will give us movement skills, which was one of the big boons of nightblade. Phantasmal Blades with conversion really helps widen its offensive potential across classes, though, so I think my vote for least synergy has got to be demo.
I didn’t mean to say that the class is weak. I meant to say it has the ‘weakest synergy.’
Pretty much what snazzblaster said in his snazzy explanation.
Now NB has low synergy? 
How?
Trickster - strong in a number of totally different builds
Infiltrator - AS broken if not more than purifier
Reaper - Cold (with or without PB)or Acid BH? not broken but amazing
Blademaster —anyone?
Witch Hunter - Very strong with so many variations and possibilities I can’t lest them now
Spellbreaker - Strong, specially for a Frostburn build.
Lastly Saboteour - The only one that has fromblems atm and needs atttention in FG.
Every class combo will have at least 1 combo that is not as strong as the others but you can’t say NB has no synergy.
Same for Demolitionist. Defiler (and sabo ofc) momentarily are the only problems. Hardly makes the rule. But:
Purifier (OP)
Commandoes
Pyros
Elementalists
Sorcs
Absolutely not
All very strong
There are so many builds of the above that destroy crucible, sume faster than others. Why is this even a debate? 
I agree. But those classes (inqui, soldier, occultist, shaman, arcanist) can be paired better with other classes IMO.
I think of it as such: The demo is the last kid to get picked.
That’s not to say it’s weak by any means. I’m just trying to say better pairing options exist.
EDIT: I dunno. Maybe I just don’t like the demo. :rolleyes:
You seem to love listing a classes strong points without addressing the question: which class has the weakest synergy? In a game with this many classes, one must have the weakest synergy. Once again, it doesn’t matter how good the synergies of a class are, but how good are they relative to other classes.
And I did conclude at the end of my post that demo was the weakest, not nightblade. I’m just brainstorming the weaknesses of various classes, while you seem committed to listing their strengths.
Sry mate but I think it’s just that you don’t really like it. I really disagree with this. Demmo has been very strong for a very long time.
just as an example. Drizzto btw came back to GD a bit. Started from 0, NO old chars/ gear.
Took him 40 hrs to get a Purifier into crucible and beat 150+ and get gear like crazy. That’s how good it is. It’s not even so gear dependent(I know cause I also posted 2)
Every other one of the chars above can do the same.
I literally listed the worst synergy in both cases…
Do I have to do it for all other class combos in the game to show this pattern, make a spreadsheet?? Am I getting paid for this? 
I kind of agree with Sir Spanksalot. Look at that this way, Demolitionist is not weak at all, has good skills like Blast Shield, FS, Flame Touched, Vindictive Flame, Thermite Mines, Flashbang, but the only reason you pick it is because you either need RR or a Attack Replacer.
There are not many builds that rely on Demolitionist primarily, it’s mostly a filler class. Purifier, we can say, is the exception since you need FS for more damage and you almost always focus on fire damage, which can be supported by 68% RR by only picking two classes and wasting 23 skill points (aside of mastery points). Commandos sometimes use FS, but, from my experience, mostly run Forcewave and therefore there’s no need to go for demolitionist. Why not go fire tactician instead? You don’t have to waste time on casting your RR skill - you just stay close and even reduce the damage dealt by your enemies and get bonus fire and burn damage.
Moreover, Demolitionist is a fire/lightning/chaos class - if you go chaos, you only pick thermite mines and that’s all of non-buff skills (I don’t point out which buffs you pick because there are only three in that class, which are 99% of time picked). Lightning damage… I mean, who picks that to support lightning damage nowadays?
So basically, Demolitionist is the best if you go fire damage, also the best if you go chaos, because it’s the only class (cough, inquisitor) that reduces chaos resist. You don’t really pick it because you want to be tanky, because you can go for other stuff like inquisitor, occultist, shaman, maybe arcanist?
It could be a good caster class, which would fill to almost all classes if we had proper conversions/sets for skills like Grenado (I know it just got one), Blackwater Cocktail, Canister bomb.
Also a little feedback about Ulzuin’s Chosen, the physical -> fire conversion kinda fucks up some builds, therefore people don’t really want this as a caster filler class, because if you, somehow, convert the damage to other type, and you pick this skill, you automatically lose 10% damage. We can say this doesn’t really affect grenado set, because you can convert up to 300% physical damage to cold, therefore reducing the skill conversion to about 3% (if I didn’t fuck up my math again).
So, we can easy say that Demolitionist is the weakest class if we talk about synergy, but not the weakest class as a separate mastery.
Occultist is also sandbox/support in most cases, so is soldier… In literally almost every build you have one class with support skills and the other has the attack skills. Sometimes they combine but even out with the rest, the devs are aware of this…Exceptions to this: Infiltrators and Purifiers that get support/attack in both classes and are just stronger than others:)
Never in all my time in GD would I ever conceive i’d see players say that demmo has bad synergy(compared to others). I am going to step out of this debate from this moment onward cause people who actually believe this seem to have it figured out. I’m also curious to see where this goes, if this keeps going and what others will say.
@fluff: out of curiosity, would you say the vindicator has better/worse/similar synergy as compared to the purifier?
I’m not trying to be sarcastic here, just trying to understand your PoV
I would pick nothing because it’s impossible to argue against Demo having the most classes that don’t work well. And yes, Nightblade is only a little better because there’s Sabo and Reaper can be wonky without the gear too. Incidentally it means necro is as bad as Nightblade.
I’m against calling whole masteries having weak synergy instead of particular classes, esp. simply counting the number of classes that don’t work. It is a wrong, misleading approach.
I mean, you never really say “OH BOY I WANNA MAKE A DEMOLITIONIST WITH FIRE STRIKE AND SMASH EVERYTHING AROUND!” and if you do, you always find something else that would work even better.
Still, I understand your point, but even if the classes you pointed out (aside of occultist, maybe) can be easily picked as your primary class which you base on.
I don’t? Can be done with lightning as well.
Also melee? Not even fully optimized.
Onle 1h/DW melee has problems atm as far as destroying crucible, Which I already mentioned
Both can destroy with Auto attack. Especially Purifier with guns(even lightning with 2 xDagallon storm spread which is broken again)/ Rifle /2h ARchon.
Vindicator AA can also do well as posted by Korsar and also has good 2h with Evoker. Not a fan of PS vindicator but you can, you can do WD/Storm box mage.
But purifier is imo just Raw power with various builds that revolve around FS or not (ie: Runes, BwC, Worldeater smash etc.)
Simply counting the non-synergistic combos is not the best approach I agree, but it’s hard to find an agreed-upon metric for evaluating class viability. No matter which metric is used, someone will disagree, so I stuck with the simplest metric to evaluate for the purpose of argument.
It’s much easier to evaluate how individual skills synergize with different classes, but breaking down a mastery into just a summation of its individual skills also has problems.
It’s a good thing in the long run that people are having questions about how to define “least synergy” and which metric is best used to evaluate this. If everyone had the same answer without needing to even question it, there’d be some balance problems :rolleyes:
As I said before, Purifier is the exception where you go 50/50 with your skills.
Are you trying to tell me that Cadence for example as an AA works very well on all class combos?
cause it doesn’t
Same for savagery. Sure you can combine and it’s doable enough for campaign or even crucible, but not raw power.
Imo, there are no auto attack replacers that are good for everyone. Cadence might work for everyone since it’s physical damage and most weapons that convert damage convert physical, but in my opinion Cadence is a bad skill in general (here many people will disagree with me, but I just don’t like the “every third hit” idea). Of course, casters don’t benefit from Cadence.
And I’ve never pointed out Cadence in my previous messages, so I don’t really understand why you said that.
You are arguing that FS, an AA is only good in one situation, so I gave otehr AA as example.
But you think Cadence is bad too:D
Anyway, pre AoM Demmo was widely considered the strongest class, especially in crucible. And now that WD has rr suddenly shaman isn’t shit any more and people pick on Demo…it’s just really weird to me
I personally like Shaman because of Heart of the Wild and Wendigo Totem, tbh. Maybe Savagery in some situations. I like tanky builds and this might be why I “like” Shaman.