Double "Sockets" in 2H weapons [with poll]

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

At the risk of furthering power creep in a game that “some” might consider to easy, I would like to bring up a continuing question, namely adding two sockets for components to 2H weapons which was last brought up two months ago here:

http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52664&highlight=component&page=3

But concluded without resolution as there was no poll as was requested. With the upcoming expansion I think it’s something I would like to see possibly implemented.

Here are my opinions on the matter:

In the current meta, 2H weapons are often discarded in favor of using sword/gun and board, 2 weapons, or weapon/caster off-hand. This is done for a variety of reasons, including survival or by necessity. One thing this allows for (as a simple byproduct) is the utilization of one extra augment and one extra component in their builds which improves synergy, utility, and allows for greater flexibility in resistances.

This result, as it current stands, leaves 2H builds short handed, relying on the supposed greater output of damage to stand as fair compensation. However, the extra damage is already paid for by less survivability, partly mitigated by slower attacks, inflexibility of damage output (i.e you cannot switch out offhands or a shield to improve resistances, damage, utility etc) and are falling behind other build types. Therefore, in my mind, 2H builds have “paid their due” in a sense, and more should be done to help these builds out.

I suggest just two things then: Firstly, allow for two different components or “potent” component versions (in a sense adding two sockets to the weapon) to be added to 2H weapons. The logic was already in place by making “potent” version of some weapon enchants. However, the enchants themselves are not directly 2x that of the regular enchant, furthering the problem so the second suggestion would be to tune these to be more in line with adding two single enchants to a weapon.

Thanks :slight_smile:

2

As a player who only played a 2h melee build and perfected it thru and thru I agree that something is needed to be done. I just can’t compete in solo gladiator with builds that either have huge defensive support of the shield or huge offensive/proc support from a second weapon/off-hand.

Vanilla content can be facerolled with the current 2handers state easily, but still I can’t match the single target damage of some dual-wield builds.

I would say - add the second socket and second augment slot, or add the second socket and increase the flat damage, or add the second socket and make current legendary 2handers stronger (try finding one with health reduction or adth for example).

3

#CenoWasRightIn2014

4

ha yeah :slight_smile: I’ve read many of those old threads and the idea at the time was to “wait and see” how all the builds fall out before implementing something like this. I would say since that time, where getting Fabius down in less than 45 seconds was the gold standard, that 2h builds have really become passe, especially in a “gladiator 100-150”, “mad-queen in less than 20 second” meta that we are in right now. make 2h great again!

5

THIS.

PS: Also I need my Empowered Razorleaf Glaive

6

Yes, This and then some (other stuff that makes 2h good)

7

My thoughts on the specific poll options themselves, to reply to people voting one way or another:

2H weapons are fine and do not need this change, but I’ve never played a 2H character
OK.

2H weapons are fine and do not need this change, and I have played a 2H character
There’s certainly a notable difference between what is viable and what is optimal, and these forums tend to get at this a lot. It’s only logical, I think, that this conflict occurs. 2H weapons are most definitely ‘fine’ in the sense that they are unanimously sufficient in clearing content fairly reliably (although that doesn’t especially hold true in Crucible, but Crucible is a bad metric to begin with). However, it does seem a little odd to me that the ‘top’ - by a large margin - is lacking any 2H presence. 1H/Focus, 1H/Shield, and DW are dominant. So my way of thinking about it is that 2H weapons are fine, but their ‘status’ is not.

2H weapons should have one extra “socket” added so that two components can be added to each weapon
Agreed. This is the option I chose.

2H weapons should have both two “sockets” as well as either two augments or one potent augment
I kind of like this idea and I think the versatility offered here would make for some interesting build concepts, but in terms of the state of 2H, I don’t know whether this is especially necessary. Potent augments are much improved relative to what they used to be like, and perhaps some could be improved further, but I no longer much see the need for 2x non-potent Augments. Augments as a whole don’t make or break a character, they just help tidy up some edge cases.

Double sockets are not needed if “potent” components are added (which are rough doubles)

Double sockets-potent components and double augment-potent augments system should both be added.
These are basically the same, and so is my response: This involves creating additional content, requiring additional balancing, and still may not suffice in handling the lack of diverse effects of 2x components. I’m a big fan of making the most of what we already have. If you want to introduce more components, that’s more things to praise RNGesus for farm, more turns of your scrollwheel at a blacksmith, more space taken up in your stash, etc. It’s needlessly more tedium that does not necessarily solve anything at all.

2H weapons should have MORE than two sockets and augment slots
2H has a lot of problems and this perhaps may be true, but it also may be false. There hasn’t been any indication one way or another for it.

To be clear, I don’t think that even 2 component slots alone will be sufficient in moving 2H to the top. In this game of procs of ours, speed is always key. Hitting harder means very little relative to hitting faster.

Regardless, I would still like to see 2 component slots on 2H weapons. It would marginally help the situation, and I think the diversity offered therein would be fantastic.

8

Double the attack speed… double the attack power… double the slots… Put adcth… Profit…

9

Some double socket love for 2H weapons would be great. :slight_smile:

10

TBH I feel like “potent” components would be ok as a solution. It’s a more likely solution than two sockets, and it’s a very simple fix that can be done even in a mod.

11

Played my share of 2h hardcore. Ceno had pretty much summarized my opinion on the matter. The only good thing about 2H is that they are relatively easy to build and level.

The problem is conversion plays a big part in 2H build damage, because it relies on weapon’s base damage a lot rather than just stacking relevant flat damage like 1h does. And since 2H only gets one component it actually has LESS conversion than 1H. Pretty much why among all 2H builds physical and lightning has the best standing. Physical doesn’t need to convert and has two weapons with %physical resistance, and lightning has Stormcaller’s pact and a dedicated set. Chaos might had been ok as well, but the only chaos 2H is Obsidian Juggernaut, which lacks %aspd. Generally 2H weapon without %aspd will be outclassed, even though those that have %aspd tend to have lower base damage.

12

I’d also like melee weapons which have the rifle- Vortex of Souls’ concept of having a different base type than fucking Physical

13

(Empowered) Immaterial Edge wants a word.

Also all of the Daggers/Scepters.

14

Voted for just an additional socket. Introducing Potent components wouldn’t fix my issue which is the lost versatility. I’d really like to mix Riftstones, Oleron’s Blood and Haunted Steels on top of what I have on some builds, even if it came with a penalty to base weapon damage.

edit: also it would seriously annoy me if 2h weapons had to to be socketed with a Potent version that would cost two of the base one for example. That could mean discarding the Haunted Steel already there and then using two additional ones. Bleh…

15

I’d still like a 2-handed equivalent to daggers and scepters.

Anyway, it’s been a while since I’ve played a 2-handed build (other than a brief stint using a 2-hander trying to resurrect one of my first characters, but 2-handed Cadence is just painful) so I can’t really comment from experience, but I’d probably lean towards 2 components.

16

I was struck by the need for this because I’m leveling a new character that uses a 2H weapon after playing a sword and board witchblade for a long time. Where as in my witchblade I can just switch out my shield componenet for whatever I need, or a new augment or whatever, maybe I need more chaos or bleed or aetherial resist or need more block chance or more whatever, I mean hell I could get a brand new skill if I want.

No such flexibility in 2H. The components aren’t even boosted to compensate! No increased physical to chaos, no damage increase, no double skills no nothing. This cannot stand!

17

2h weapons are currently the weakest in builds:

  • Lack of attack speed. This is understandable, but 2h doesn’t even have the damage to make up for it. In the current state of game where you get proc with chance based on number of hits, attack speed > damage
  • Lack of conversion/bonus from components
  • Lack of flexibility from augments
  • Lack of defensive/utilitty bonus from shield/offhand
  • Hell, even damage, the supposedly strong point of 2h is lacking comparing to DW

2h weapons neeed a great overhaul, but double socket is a start.

18

The 2h exclusive skills (like transmute primal strike) have huge dmg penalties that negate the only advantage of 2handers over 1hander. -75% weapon and -35% total on top completely ridiculous.“b-but you can spam it!!” Yeah sure while my 1hander+shield with other skill does more dps and has more survivability.

19

This is something that has been bought up repeatedly, and passionately, since GD started, the simple fact that a 1h can run an aura AND a 2nd component, but 2h are stuffed etc has all been bought up.

BUT it has never changed in all these years and I can only guess that Crate have no intention of changing this as it’s been requested so many times :(:(:frowning:

20

I would like to increase the slots of components and augments one by one.

Diversity of choice makes the game fun. In addition, 2h weapons are slower attack speeds, so they are less attractive than one-handed weapons with respect to skill activation rate.