Endgame balancing problem

Hi, boys’n girls
No big wall of text
Just one thing that worries me all the time about GD

Please, let’s not to balance the whole endgame according to dozen of players who post builds on this forum. Please, let us play and share our results without worry that our builds will be nerfed with the next patch.

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If you post a build that is overperforming, expect it to get nerfed.

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Crate is small (though big in imagination).

Probably don’t have access to massive amounts of play testing prior to going live.

The die hard community here is the next best thing.

Crate also has a clear and well-documented way with how they want the game/mechanics to play. With posting of builds and finding out where this runs afoul and they can adjust accordingly. We help them that way.

If you’re concerned with your elite build being nerfed, don’t post it. But also don’t assume that because you found what might be a way the game was not intended to function by Crate that they shouldn’t want to fix it accordingly.

Good words, I would agree, If the balancing wasn’t based on fastest runs of best players

Example1:
I made a build. It does 6m. Fine? Fine
I give it to John Smith. He does 5m.
I give it to unexperienced Cruci player. He does 7m.
What should we do?

Example2:
I saw the 5m build. I + different players tried it.
The result - we all agreed it’s a pure glass cannon, that can’t do Cruci consistently.
By changing the build you lose 1m, but the build doesn’t die in most cases -> you can farm Cruci consistently.
What should we do?

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Gets nerfed regardless. The unexperienced player can eventually get experienced and start getting similar times to the other players. This should never be an argument for anything in this topic.

The fact that the build can get 5 minutes period is enough to warrant a nerf. It means the numbers on it are unintentional. Also, Zantai doesn’t want 5 minutes build regardless of player experience. Even 6 minutes is already in the range of nerfs.

Simple, don’t give it to John Smith or any of the other elite/fastest players. :wink:

More seriously, it’s going to depend on the build I expect. If it’s just good piloting I don’t know if Zantai would touch it or not, but if skills/items make it OP then yes, he’s going to. As Norzan said, if you’re worried then don’t post the build on the forum. Keep it to yourselves and hope no one else posts it at some point in the future and it gets nerfed.

So you’re seriously saying piloting skills don’t matter? And every player with experience can match John Smith? :smile:

I would say things are much complicated. If build is over performing than the initial idea, Nerf it. If build is fast on top of unkillable, same thing. But the 6 minutes glass canon, that require multiple buttons, skills and positioning and still dies don’t deserve Nerf.

I know that GD patches are like season resets but more we get closer to the finish state, the more boundaries should be set and the changes have to be in terms of creating some sort of balance, but not necessarily to throw stones at every single strong build. If every 6 minutes build is nerfed, then will never reach finished state of the game with satisfying results!

They matter for how good you play, but not if the build gets nerfed or not. It would only matter here if player skill was the majority but let’s not kid ourselves: the stats in the build are doing the majority of the legwork.

Time difference should be only compared between both players with the same exact run. Saying one did 5 minutes but had a favorable run and other did 6 minutes but the run was not on their favor, that really can’t be compared. Mutators and the Nemeses you get are important factors as well, beyond the stats of the build and how well the player plays.

Also, someone is playing better than you? Then get better and if you can’t, tough luck.

Well I am already good enough but the thing is somewhere someone will be better than everyone else. And if you look only times that person can achieve, it will become nerf fiesta.

As I said there is big difference between strong builds and unintentionally overperforming ones. It’s Zantai decision but forum community is the critical mass that have their opinions what is considered strong/weak. We have as much interest as you, the testers to achieve that balance. We play the game often and have the valuable information, how’s the current state of builds. The vocal minority as you describe us. And you can see builds are being posted, they’re not hidden or have misguided information. So maybe we try not just to take but also to give back?

And I can say, nothing is worse than idea, not post build just because you fear it might get nerfed. If I stop posting my builds for some reason, I will lose interest in GD. And almost nothing can’t stop me. But for some other players, the whole idea of over balance can stop them posting here.

So I beg them and join @Dmt post, please post your builds!

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This happens quite often where a build overperforming in offense gets added defense as compensation. Happened with Pyran and several others.

They either accept balance pass will happen to their builds or quit playing. This is what the devs want for their game. But coming here saying “please, don’t nerf our builds” is not gonna work, give the track record of the devs.

psst… I think maybe you meant ‘Norzan’? :wink:

But I wonder why some players are afraid of posting here builds and hide them?

I think it’s better to help them and motivate them to post here, instead of trying to kick them out. Everyone’s opinion have equal value!

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So, would you rather that Crate balance a game, then, upon a wall of silence from people who don’t actively contribute to feedback and input (and builds) of the game?

Nerf isn’t a dirty word, btw.

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Because some people like to play broken builds and broken builds is something the devs don’t want. It’s a clash of ideologies where one believes OP builds should exist because they are fun and the other don’t want them because they believe they are unhealthy for the game.

Yes she made a naming mistake. You totally haven’t deleted your comment. :smile:

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I personally don’t like broken builds. I dislike them and trying to make my honest opinion in the feedback or build threads. You can see my ideas about Rancor for example, overperforming offensively build, which I played.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the time only but “how” it is getting that time. More than likely a mix of mechanics that want intended. i think that warrants a fix. Also considering this game is “slower” than some of its counterparts I’d be inclined to say piloting SHOULD be part of the equation.

Just another example of my failing brain. :woman_facepalming:

I would if I had any, but I’m a filth Main Campaign peasant who, by crate’s design, doesn’t deserve jack shit in terms of loot when it comes to just playing the game as opposed to playing some of the “optional” challenges (practically minigames at this point)

Also because I’m the kind of retard who doesn’t build a leechtank (also dubbed glass cannon around these parts) or warlord-tank to clear challenger or whatever people used to farm up their first gladiator farmer.

No one is talking about the obvious solution…

Nerf people like John_Smith, Mercymaker etc instead of nerfing the builds image


But seriously though, I am against nerfing something just based on pure numbers, with no regards to consistency of the build or the pilot’s skill.

But to elaborate a bit, the issue I have is that Crucible is taken as the measuring scale while a nerf on the items or skills echo across the entire game.

If a build is overperforming in the crucible, then I rather have the changes affect as little as possible outside Crucible.

While I am aware of the extra layer of challenge this introduces, I rather have a build overperforming in the Crucible, in the hands of a skilled player instead of a universal nerf.

Or maybe, Crucible itself needs a rework, Idk…

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