Endgame balancing problem

Rhylthar · October 15, 2019, 11:36am

Hm…fascinating. Often Behemoth, haven´t seen one build with Ghoul/Bat, yet.

Edit:
That is so differently to “our” builds.
Spock_2

spikenik · October 15, 2019, 11:37am

Weird. I like it.

AlkamosHater · October 15, 2019, 11:47am

Very interesting builds, two concepts which I had in my mind for testing and even one very similar which I have just posted. Looks like I am not the first one who tryied to utilize health regen and Canister bomb on sorc for SR performance

@ABCbarbecue is there wrote anywhere what is max SR performance of these builds? I guess some of them were tryied to test for the limit.

powbam · October 15, 2019, 11:55am

Managed to find 1 more:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V037wo2 (Spellbreaker)

That leaves 3 out of all of them that currently aren’t working. I’ll try to fiddle with them and see if I can spot any apparent issues with why.

Edit:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/0V03q1R2 (Dervish)

2 more to go

Edit2:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/gZwLmAKN (Trickster)

1 more to go

Edit3:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/gZwLvrJN (Warlord)

All of them have been deciphered and fixed.

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 11:58am

Max SR performance is not noted in any part of the file due to the consideration to have more tolerance of builds and encouragement to play all varieties for players in our community, because people tend to be drawn to T0 builds, and ignore those who are in second place, even though second place builds may be much more solid than the one that struggles to very high levels. We hope they could enjoy this diversity and so we are guiding our commnunity to focus on the right things.
In general, warlord. shieldbreaker and battlemage has the most potiential to reach very high levels.
But again, it took too long to dive deep, and that’s the work for the lone fighters to max out SR. It’s respectful but not recommended though. Getting too competitive is no good for the health of community.

powbam · October 15, 2019, 12:20pm

OK here is the complete extracted list in one post:

This one here is the crossed out link in the picture:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLn0n6N (Warder)

AlkamosHater · October 15, 2019, 12:21pm

I understand I wondered because I was lurking your forum few times (very hard to navigate because of language barrier so I didn’t see a lot) and I found screen from guy who reached 98 shard on hardcore with pet build I hope your community will join us in future again.

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 12:27pm

actually this is the forum most experienced players go to
https://tieba.baidu.com/f?ie=utf-8&kw=darktemplar&fr=search

But we have tight internet control policies which makes posting stuff annoying. We are basically ditching forums
So most people choose to be active in chat groups where communication is efficicent, vibe is superb,and exchange of items is no trouble, etc.

Edit 1: half the BDs I’ve collected can be found nowhere else. Because they were sent directly to me to put in the compendiums

AlkamosHater · October 15, 2019, 12:36pm

Thank you, there is a lot to see. I thought before that you don’t use GT and post builds mostly with screenshots but non chinese letters in first topic like 8NKO模拟器QrON are for GT link.

x1x1x1x2 · October 15, 2019, 12:39pm

We need more feedback from you guys. People here are getting tired of Crate (seemingly) balancing based mostly on cruci but they need feedback from SR players in order for it to be considered more.

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 12:41pm

that’s what I meant by tight policy.
Internet address or a link to the competitor of the forum can always trigger deletion of the post. So we suck it up by getting around it by putting it in the pic or adding non-related characters to it, such as 8NKO模拟器QrON, you just have to delete 模拟器 then you get the right string 8NKOQrON

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 12:47pm

The tricky part is we are somewhat tired too.
And I never get a grip of what their standards are. There are 200 levels of SR, however they seems to be balancign around 65ish. I get this is for the benefits of the general non-hardcore players. But it’s the type of thing make our passion evaporate.
And history taught us that whatever we post here, it’s doom to a nerf.
Edit 1 ： Crate has done some outstanding work on balencing in general. except one nerf to warlord wasn’t enough

powbam · October 15, 2019, 12:50pm

Actually it’s technically an infinite amount of “levels” you can delve (naturally, there’s going to be a very finite limit any given build can safely reach). Zantai considers 60-65 to be on par to Cruc 170, in my understanding.

x1x1x1x2 · October 15, 2019, 12:51pm

It’s cause you guys got a different approach to the game and when it’s posted and people here start to adapt it to what we’re used to then your ideas get the blame and get nerfed.

The DA meta for example was IIRC only a bleed warder and some commando at the start and then people realized you can mix it with old OP rune infiltrators or the OP Vindicators and it just got out of hand.

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 12:53pm

It might not be indefinite. it was told by our modders.

powbam · October 15, 2019, 12:54pm

Well, then I guess that’s between them and Crate as Zantai has always summed it up as being “effectively unlimited”. Maybe there is a 200 cap because they figured noone would likely ever reach it?

ABCbarbecue · October 15, 2019, 12:56pm

health bonus fyi.

But it matters nothing. We can barely make it to lvl 100.

mad_lee · October 15, 2019, 1:00pm

Can you share some of the better builds from your community in private? Does your community watches builds from these forums? Do they build for Crucible too or just SR?

Anonymous918 · October 15, 2019, 1:01pm

This is because bat/ghoul isn’t necessary in SR where the goal is to whittle the nemesis/superbosses one by one. Survival is of utmost importance in the crucible, and obviously not in the SR.

Chthon · October 15, 2019, 1:03pm

“Deader than a doorknob is a good one”

Off topic, whatever happened to your signature? I loved Jiaco’s comment on your signature
On topic, great that you are putting so much effort into extracting the Chinese builds. Thanks

On that note, @ABCbarbecue have you considered making another one of those build collection threads where you demonstrate some builds to us.
In the past such builds helped a lot in discussions about balance.

@Sobertooth
Nice to see you are still around. I agree with your statement on as long as the end game is accesible to most build concepts then it should be fine.

But shouldn’t optimum performance also be a thing? We have seen crucible times go from 20-30 minutes in vanilla (correct me if I am wrong here) to 10 minutes average in AoM to sub 7 minutes in FG.

Clearly there’s been a shift in what’s considered to be “normal” by the community. So now I wonder what’s considered to be normal by the community now.