Endgame balancing problem

What’s wrong is that THIS is where Zantai draws the line. He has clear ideas on what’s an acceptable time frame for a build to clear the content and anything that is blowing this time out of the water indicates to him that something is brokenly OP and needs to be tuned down to something more acceptable.

I understand this and I think its where he should change his approach. Hope he gets my ideas.

He won’t. I’m pretty much 100% sure of that. You won’t change his mind on his approach and certainly not without a better argument than you’ve come with.

You miss the point, hilariously, that Crucible is the be-all-end-all of loot modes. Completely optimized campaign farming (Roguelikes) has jack shit on (even challenger, or even aspirant) crucible loot and costs way more (keys), without netting back it’s cost.

SR is only marginally better, in that it’s part of the MC/Expansion, and it actually pays back it’s eldritch snot cost. surprise surprise.

Undergeared characters are already facing a stiff barrier when entering endgame, no need to make it worse.

Are you me from an alternate universe :grin:

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A popular, but fundamentally flawed, view on balancing a game.

Even now, with the current game balance, we have some people upset when a build is 30 seconds behind whatever standard they’ve set for themselves because a few builds are overperforming. When “lesser” builds are posted, they are lambasted for being trash.

This mentality stifles players sharing their builds.

And we can’t just buff underperformers to meet whatever the best build is at the time. That results in massive power creep. There will never be a point where every build performs exactly the same. There’s too many variables and moving parts at play. Nor should every build perform the same in every scenario. To that end, we work towards a reasonable happy middle.

Have you actually played endgame Crucible or do you just like bitching about its drop rates?


Boromonokli, what is the POINT of getting loot, when you have all the loot your build needed?

Well, except for that you love playing GD so much that you always need gears for moar builds)))

Absolutely this. I have 3.4k posts in slightly over half a year and 50 builds. Too many similarities. :smile:

Thanks a lot for detailing your position!
So you are not balancing “the game” but the “meta-discussion” around it. Its totally different approach because I as solo-player think only about game-balancing not really being concerned with meta. But now I can see that as a developer and a shot-caller you have a totally different perspective and here your methods are indeed more fitting. I should think more about this…

From what I’ve seen, posts are critique if, and only if, the author claims that that the build is capable of achieving things it cannot possibly achieve without the use of “dirty tricks”

All other criticism is aimed at optimizing the build, which imo, is the norm here.

When you share your thoughts/ideas on a forum, it’s normal to expect pushback.

A good example - recently, a person shared his concept of a DW autoattacking harra spellbreaker.

Is it suboptimal? Yes. Definitely.

Was it lambasted/mocked? No.

I like to think that we as a community are rather encouraging on this front.

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I haven’t posted anything since late AoM days but I did most builds during early AoM which I suppose was the start of the “crucible builds only” trend I and some others posted non crucible builds. We didn’t really get that treatment.

Our builds were understandably less popular but no one came to thread and called it shit or something.

The only cases where I see build threads turning into fist fights is when the build promises more than it can actually deliver.

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Funny thing about game balance is that it is far more about perceptions and “feels” than it is about actual numbers.

A nice example of this, without exact quotes, comes from WoW back in WotLK era when Unholy Death Knights were slammed by the community for being vastly inferior to Frost spec. Numerically, the two performed very similarly, but perception shaped reality.

A later patch actually overbuffed Unholy spec so that it rose in popularity.

Not saying that everybody does it or that they do it consistently, but there have been many examples over the years. It also doesn’t take someone coming right out and telling a person to fuck off to still make them feel unwanted. It’s all in how the criticism is presented.


Lets just say… it happens and has happened and the Build section of the forum was becoming rather “divided”. That attitude has been cracked down on alot in the past months tho.

Yeah I must have missed out on it completely during my away time.

You can’t hold the actions of a few toxic individuals against the entire community. Because there have been far more acts of kindness imo.

E.g. Anyone able to help a noob Belgo BM?

Right. We’ve all (at one point or another) done/said toxic things. (E.g. when I slammed alexgoldfish’s post).

But that doesn’t mean that the community here is by and large “elitist snobs.”

Far from it, really.


Who said I’m holding it against the community. I’m stating a simple fact, and the fact is that a few individuals have negatively affected the build section based on how builds perform.

Putting words in my mouth now? :stuck_out_tongue:

Most of whom get the ban-slam.

Never mate. :stuck_out_tongue:

Was just a throwback to that joke malawiglenn and I used to toss around.

I’d just like to say- I’ve been actively consuming the Forums the past 3 days and i have received nothing but kindness. I’d agree that EVERY community has some toxicity to it- but so far I’ve yet to meet/see anything even remotely rude!


Most of the time the natural selection will seed out toxic presence in the forum.

Still you have drama thread or two but it’s inevitable considering the large amount of players and the fact they have different interests/point of view.

But generally I like community and enjoy writing with most of ya guys!

Oh, just you wait :no_mouth:

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