Somewhat related, but maybe a bit unrelated opinion. I personally think that Crucible blessings and banners could maybe use a nerf instead of items and builds if faster Crucible times are the only concern.
Playing with Blessings+Banner and going naked Cruci are 2 completely different experiences for example.
That said, I can see that approach also causing problems if the builds in question cannot even survive the crucible without said blessings or the extra damage from banner.
I second that.
To stop a riot I think 2 things have to be done:
a) A new “thinking” for fast Crucible builds. Survival 1st, time 2nd.
b) Mad Lee has a point with “Damage to survive”. Should be compensated with defensive stats but I think Crate is working on something like that.
@Zantai and rest
for me as someone with out all sets and dont cheating best in slot gear with mods. Some nerfs hurts a lot and kill the fun in the game for people like me and the mass.
Nerfing skills cause a Set of items is to strong compared to other sets feels realy bad for people with out full set.
Rune of haggard nerf was bad for beginner build
The wind devil line nerf was bad for beginner build
some nerfs back in the day for some demolist skills was bad
etc…
Keep this in mind that other people beside the crucible min/maxer plays the game and want to have fun.
Your points have been given so many times in this forums and the response is always the same: “you are exaggerating”
They are still very good skills for beginners who mostly will do Main Campaign and lower levels of Crucible and SR farming.
Man I had to do some digging for this one.
Outside of the nerfs in 1.1.4.0, I couldn’t remember the last time Demolitionist was nerfed. Turns out it’s only seen buffs in every single patch since 1.0.3.0 in November of 2017:
And here I was thinking the last nerf had to be a Stun/Quick Jacks nerf. 
Crucible 161-170 is designed so you must eliminate enemies quickly, or they’ll overwhelm you with nasty debuffs and oneshot you with insane damage. No build can tank bosses from 169-170 waves. That’s why players are going so offernsively on it. They just have no choice.
The way the blessings/tribute game is set up, it only takes a couple of bad runs for Crucible to suddenly become inaccessible. But that doesn’t concern us fine GD-stashers talking up a storm in the forum, does it? :P
That’s why I’m not joking when I say that blessings should be capped at two and reworked a bit. Let the glass cannons get their defense and their fun without a free 30% damage buff, let the tanks get a bit of help with their damage but no over-the-top boost to survivability.
That and making tribute rewards less punishing would make the Crucible game less crooked.
you just start over again and harvest tribute points.
That is “now”. We already had the complete difference (DA-Meta, don´t need it back). As I said: More defense to survive longer. Times will go up.
I don’t think most of the builds can even beat naked Crucible 1 in 10 times. Furthermore is pilot thing, but even best pilot with superb kiting can’t effectively do Gladiator, without dying many times. Sir Spanksalot have made super thin builds do naked runs, but even he said 1 out of 3 times is still success. So don’t see the point in farming Crucible without buffs or bad buffs. It will take you 5 time more time for same results. And more importanly ruining buffs/banner will absolutely kill diversity, unless you bring back DA stacking meta 
not quite. You can remove rewards from starting at 150, and that’ll let you bring 150-170 runs to be the crucible equivalent of SR-depth attempts.
because it is exaggerated. several of us test regularly with cleared stashes and self found characters to emulate the progression. I personally, gimp myself deliberately, because on the lower difficulties people just make crappy builds. and still be accounted for them. thing is that with some patches the player does need to re-learn some things. and look at them with a new fresh pair of eyes. instead of expecting things to work exactly the same.
the “nerf” for wind devils actually worked out well. and the demolisionist being “nerfed”…well everything that is too strong needs to be brought back within the acceptable upper and lower limit of balance. Demo was way too powerfull all around. both as stand alone mastery as well as supporting mastery. and for people who have a basic understanding of balancing… there are always upper and lower levels in which everything needs to fall. using crucible times of 6-8minutes as such a macro-baseline is perfectly normal.
over the years, just like Adoomgod, with 100ish builds… I’ve been only mad at Zantai once or twice for actually breaking a build. and like Ceno said it had to do with conversion and changes to a set that the build relied on. people complaining every patch their builds are dead in the water are really over reacting and need a reality check.
as for crucible specific comments… can’t say anything, because i dont’ give a rat’s ass about that play mode.
Making 150-170 like deep shards sounds like a living nightmare to me 
When something is working fine, don’t poke it with a stick! Endless shards provides enough challenge. Naked Crucible completion still brings satisfaction, when you succeed. Why remove unique mode?
Anyway what I wanted to say is that speedrunning is for some people the most sophisticated way to play this game. This is where the little details matter most, like which little component to use, how exactly to bind devotions, how to invest the last skill point, how to approach different combinations of enemies, how to use different properties of different skills (like I learned from Shoot you can use BwC for aggro on this elementalist and save points on Canister) how to approach different combinations of enemies, etc. to maximize clear time. This is what really fuels discussions about those topics.
Now, many people in this thread advocate solutions (not even worth citing imo) to make this aspect of the game much less diverse and rewarding or even non-existent. Maybe this is Crate’s intent, I don’t know. After all they did design SR so that it cannot be consistently speedrun. If so then fine.
not everyone classifies Endgame as chopping through Crucible as quickly as possible , or getting to high SR shards , for the most part I’ve seen people refer to it as “the point where i can farm items reliably through roguelike and/or roguelike runs” and crucible is just another goal they might not even bother to reach
edit : this was supposed to be a reply to Jabrix who told Gibly to shut up because he doesnt like cruci
Yeah, except for the fact that most of the balancing is done around crucible.
Whereas some praetorian seems like doesn’t have any idea of that mode.
Before anyone seeing me as being too negative, I am not. I mostly like what crate brought to the table. I just don’t like the fact that crate nerfing or buffing something without really testing. And the fact that this balancing will take so many of crate’s time from making a new game altogether.
Anyway, I am out. Seems like this discussion is going nowhere.
Just do what you got to do and be mindful of the consequences.
You will need to realize that the one posting so many builds and having such a sophisticated discussion on the game is not your enemy, but your biggest fan, who are very passionate about your game. There is nothing you will get by being passive aggressive to those ppl.
Well, nobody said “Speedrunning” should be exterminated. It´s about how fast it is.
When Shoot or John_Smith do 6 minutes after nerf (without luck, consistently) what´s the problem when “6 minutes” is the new time to beat?
I wouldn´t change anything in Crucible to make it more random. That´s SR for and when people like you and others really like number-crunching, that´s fine (no irony here, I played WoW long enough and liked this approach a lot).
Why wreck left and right the rest of the game because of this “unique” mode, Nery? I can play the accusational question game too! (But it’s a pointless game, let’s not do that)
Simply removing the rewards from starting at 150 or doing 170 does nothing against the playability or fun of the game mode. fine tuning buffs and maybe their tribute costs also makes 151-170 runs to be a healthier place. (As limiting the number of buffs you can have should be expected to come with making each individual buff stronger to compensate to a degree)
It also accomplishes the original design goal of making 151-170 an extra, optional challenge, you know, not a must-finish-under-7min yardstick.
“DA meta” was abusing unfair mechanics to get 100% chance to avoid being hit. Obviously, you’ll have a blast, when enemies cant hurt you. But when that crap got fixed, players realized, that no realistic amount of defence would help VS Anasteria, coupled with few other bosses, for example. So your best bet is just finish her off quickly.
First thing, i’d nerfed some ridiculously unfair debuffs the eemies possess - Anasteria’s 50% all resist reduction (no sane overcaps would help there), fumble & impaired aim, -50% damage from Sentinel, -700 DA from Fabius, etc. Then such shit overlaps, you can do nothing but die. There is no way one can counter that.