Endgame Build Balancing Discussion

Seriously I hope crate still test the change before giving nerfs. I really hate the fact that overperforming set/skill become shit after they nerf it. So many cases like this in the past. GD will never become finish if they always do that.

Good job ya and shoot!

I hope you guys didn’t destroy yet another good set.

c’mon, how much exaggeration we see here… Cyclone has been due for a little touch since release .

I’m sure it will be fine .

This is not exaggeration. This is based on historical facts. Look at arcanist after so many rounds of nerfs. It needs 4 big patches until it can be usable again.

I just want GD to be finished and crate to work on GD2 ASAP.


yup me too

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It’s not finished until y’all realize anything under 6m or 7m is unbalanced.


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That will never happen.
Also, what’s with that arbitrary number? 7m with banner is nothing.

Yes, I too believe some of you will never accept this.


Cap blessings at 2 and rework the Vanguard banner. Avoid the forum for a couple of weeks. Problem solved. :P

:scorv: /turducken


I mean, don’t you guys see how ppl achieve that number? They min max every little thing, they study the cruci pattern, they study every item options, game mechanics, they train countlessly. Only the few dedicated player of GD can achieve that. And I used to believe that this is one of the reward you achieve in playing this game.

Nerfing items and skills to the ground just to keep these players in check is honestly doesn’t make any sense to me. As long as these players still have interest in GD, sub 6 minutes build will always happen.


Nerfing overperforming builds HAS to happen for the long-term health of the game and to prevent power creep. The alternative is the GD equivalent of Torment 16

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Ok…I’ll bite…

In what way does balance remove this “reward” from the equation? The most skilled players will always get better results than the less skilled. That’s just…common sense. If we shift the minimum from 5 minutes to 6, that doesn’t magically make casual players perform as well as pros.

There is always going to be a standard by which builds are judged at the highest tiers of play. The problem you don’t seem to acknowledge is that when some builds perform significantly better than others, everything else becomes “trash/crap/dead/etc” and those same players will tell everyone to avoid X or Y because Z is always going to be better. This in turn makes new players think build diversity is lower than it actually is. In fact, builds diversity has never been greater, but some would argue otherwise because the top of the top of the peak has a few outliers.

The irony is that some builds that were doing fine are now “bad” not because they were nerfed but because they fell behind in the mad rush to squeeze out ever faster clear times. So I’d much rather bring the few outliers into a healthy range and have old favorites become “viable” again.


You are preaching to the choir here, my friend. I have been saying this same thing again and again. Zantai and some of his more devoted Praetorians have a very vague understanding of how stuff works in endgame. Which is not a bad thing, it’s just the way it is. Zantai and Crate have to work on all aspects of the game, while endgame is just like 1% of the whole Grim Dawn.

I have also said it many times - if you add ~1 minute to those top-tier builds by nerfing their damage and/or buffing monsters they stop being viable because their defenses are very limited and their only way of survival versus endgame content is killing stuff faster than it kills you.


Lol…I know more about the game and its mechanics than anyone on this planet, but keep telling yourself that.


I know that you know. By “endgame” I mean actually trying to make viable balanced builds for Crucible 150-170 and higher shards. I believe that you don’t do that nor you actually play some of those builds in Crucible 150-170 or Shards 65+. Because it’s not your job, really.

Ya know Z… you should check and see if there is a way to downvote posts in Discourse. I want to hurt people’s feelings via button format.

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Of course I don’t play every build ever made, that’s not possible for anyone, not even the builders here.

It’s a bit ignorant to imply I don’t understand the chain reaction of changes though or that some builds rely on damage to survive. It’s not unusual for nerfs to come with new defensive stats in other places, for example, though that seems to just be ignored cause there was ONE NERF.

Defensive stats are easier to find now than ever in ways that don’t even require endgame gear. In fact that’s something we seek to address further as we look at Epics and Rares for the next big patch.

It is also a historical fact that some builds are pushing for more fragile approaches than ever and counting on flawless piloting to get them through, then if they lose some of that damage they are #deadbuilds. Balancing a build’s offense and defense has suffered, and it shouldn’t.