Epic Games Takes on Steam

Off Topic News In Gaming
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Valve Outlines Its Plans For Steam In 2019

As for what’s ahead, Valve outlined eight changes that it plans to ship this year. Those include improved store discoverability including a new algorithmic recommendation engine and new broadcasting and curating features, a reworked Steam library based on tech that underlies the new version of Steam chat, the launch of Steam China, a new events system, Steam TV support for all games, a new Steam chat mobile app, an expanded Steam Trust system for determining whether or not players are cheaters, and an official Steam PC cafe program.

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The main thing I ask from Steam is to throw away their software and finally give us one from the 21st century.
To get a better experience with steam, you have to do the minimum inside their software and use as much as possible the web version of their store as, at least, your browser had a few ergonomy updates in the last 20 years and allows to use tabs.
Recently, they updated their chat for a few improvements but it still terrible : you don’t keep a real log of the conversations, if you close a tab, it may be open the next time you start steam, etc.
They get the maximum of money but provide the minimum of work. :confused:

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Agree so much, their version of chromium is probably the worst on the planet.

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Turns out Epic are bloody useless when it comes to reinstalling the client if you have games already installed from them. Instead of letting you select the folder with thier games in and simply putting them in your library as most others do, Epic refuses to use a folder that’s not empty for game installs and insists that you have to redownload all your games all over again…:furious::furious::furious:

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lol

Well, they are kinda new to this whole “store” thing, Jak. I get the frustration but then again it’s kinda hard to expect them to be “just like Steam” at the moment. Jus’ saying. I think going in with the knowledge that shit isn’t going to be perfect or work like you think it is going to might be slightly unrealistic. Not trying to come across as being on their side or anything but I would look at Epic as being in Beta, or Alpha.

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Not touched this client yet, still deciding if its worth it, but right now, I’m going to wait and see. But still, you would have thought they would have taken some ideas from the steam client? especially if they want to rival it at some point.

But it does sound like the client is basically a beta, then again, GOG’s galaxy client has taken a while to progress, so I guess these things taken time.

But as a direct competitor to steam, then Epic should have at least released a client that had a lot more features, including the above issue. Seems very daft to re download games if you have to reinstall, especailly when many games are getting huge. Not everyone has unlimited bandwidth. Especailly in some EU and Africa regions when bandwidth is limited or at a premium.

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I’m lucky to top out at 2.3MB/sec download speed (around 7GB per hour). JUST the Steam games I own come out too 1.18TB. Being forced to redownload THAT much would make me very unhappy.

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I’m not expecting them to be “just like Steam”, this is something that while creating the client they made a choice that customers have to redownload all their games and released it in this state, thus they deserve to be judged on this.

It’s not a novel concept, or one that is “only Steam”, from Vive to Itch can already do this. At some point in dev they decided that people that have already supported Epic by having games, can put up with redownloading their entire game collection from Epic. To me this indicates a company that’s more interested in getting new customers than caring for existing ones, or assuming that everyone has ultra fast, unlimited internet and doesn’t mind waiting for the download.

Still I’m only using it for free subnautica and I really cannot see me buying off them at the present.

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Can you say for sure that maybe it just didn’t occur to them yet to ensure it worked like that correctly? Seems to me that could be a possibility. Or maybe even a bug. When I first downloaded the app when you went in to settings it claimed that it was “Beta xxNumbers”… looks like they removed that now, but as far as I’m concerned it’s still beta-times for them.

I haven’t bought any games yet either tho I did playthru and like the latest free one “What Remains Of Edith Finch”. Was kinda interesting and the wife liked watching me go thru it at any rate, since it’s more an interactive story which is more her speed. About the only other one I would seriously consider buying at the moment is the Hades one by Supergiant Games (Bastion) in early access. Well, and Rebel Galaxy Outlaw by DoubleDamage.

Overall, I can agree that the storefront app on the whole needs a lot of work and features and my view is that they should definitely make it a high priority on getting it fleshed out and quickly before the momentum they managed to create disappears.

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Very good points and very possible. Let’s hope that is the case.

I’m in 2 minds about the current free one, but as it’s free and I’m not sure it’s probably worth a d/l just to see. I do hope that Rebel Galaxy is just a time exclusive and not a permernant one, but I guess we will see about that as well.

Yeah they need to move quickly to make the most of the interest because it’s “new”, some people complain about Steam constantly updating itslef on start, but at least it is getting constant updates and changes :slight_smile:

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Not looking like it’s going to happen quickly =/

https://rebel-galaxy.com/rebel-galaxy-outlaw-launching-on-epic-games-store-qa/

Hey, so it’s announced that Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is going to be launching on the Epic Games Store! We’re really excited about that. We also have gotten a lot of questions and concerns about it, so we’re gonna try to answer those and lay all this out as best we can.

Q) So that means it’s not going to launch on Steam or GoG? What gives?
A) Yes, Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is going to be exclusively on the Epic Store for a while. Eventually it’ll make its way elsewhere. (Console releases are not tied to this)

Q) You’re being a coy bastard. How long, and don’t be a weasel.
A) 12 months from launch.

Q) Exclusives are anti-consumer, why would you do this? (you monster)
A) OK, so that’s a little complicated. And our answer is long-winded. Bear with us.

So, before Valve and the 70/30 split it was pretty darn rough to be an indie (both in terms of royalty share and in terms of the ability to sell things without a publisher). We can all thank Valve for using their leverage to make that happen, and usher in the era we have now. We think it’s safe to say that a large percentage of the games made today wouldn’t exist without it.

Epic is using their leverage to push that even farther, to 88/12. That’s another whole strata of developers who can survive.

Would we like that to become the new standard?
Yes.

Can that be done without leverage?
No.

Is some form of exclusive content required to get the momentum to make that happen?
Yes.

And we’re willing to get on board to make that happen. The only way this gets any traction is with some exclusive content and we’re willing to be one of the canaries in the mineshaft.

Do we hope there is a big upside for us? Sure. That’d be amazing. But we also hope this is the start of establishing a new standard.

Q) That just means more money in your pocket, (you monster!!)
A) I mean yes, ideally. It’s a new store right now though, and that prospect is more of a long term one. Right? But we really hope and suspect that in the long run this will be better for us financially. That’s how we make more and better stuff.

Q) OK, maybe this is good for developers, but how is this good for customers? (still a monster)
A) From our standpoint as customers, a curated store with a more limited selection of quality games is a plus. Having the ability for you to share your emails with us (optionally) so we can communicate directly with you is hopefully also a plus for you. Competition for Steam is a plus. And in the longer term, achieving Epic’s goals on the royalty front means more developers succeeding and surviving and making more good stuff. That’s a longer play, but we think it’s still meaningful.

Moreover, it doesn’t remove Steam or other stores from the equation. We’ve all got big Steam libraries that aren’t going anywhere. Yes, this is exclusive right now, but that’s all sort of bound up in the store’s launch and this specific point in time.

Q) What about regional pricing?
A) From Epic: Regional pricing is currently live with 8 currencies (Brazil & Argentina are still USD) – but more currencies will be added early 2019. As of today, Epic currently supports local pricing in USD, Great British Pound, Euro, Polish Zloty, Russian Ruble, South Korean Won, Japanese Yen, Turkish Lira, and Ukrainian Hryvnia.

Q) What about refunds?
A) According to the Epic FAQ, at present-
“We will offer two no-questions-asked refunds per player within two weeks of purchase.”

Q) Are you doing this because you’re salty at Valve for some reason?
A) No. We love & respect the folks at Valve. This is just an opportunity we couldn’t pass up.

Q) So I have to have another launcher running in the background all the time? Hell no!
A) Offline games (which Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is) can be played offline without the launcher. In the future, when achievements and stats come online, you’d need to be logged in to benefit from that.

Q) What about consoles?
A) They’ll launch as planned when they are ready to go on PS4 and Switch.

Seems that DoubleDamage are committed to the cause. No matter what some might think of the decision I gotta give 'em two thumbs way up for being upfront about it and sure of themselves. So, at least a year from release before they sow the seeds.

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Doesn’t matter if it’s only on the Epic store, I’m totes fluffing buying Rebel Galaxy: Outlaw the week it comes out (hopefully, got a mountain bike to completely rebuild…).

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Double Damage made a choice, fair enough. But I think it will cost them sales, good intentions or not. A noble sacrifice I suppose. I’m still not installing another launcher, certainly not one as lacking in features as this one. They’ve got a lot of catching up to do before I’m going to bother.

Oh and that refund question, does that mean people only get two refunds ever? That seems… stupid.

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Another case of Epic being idiots: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/fortnite-v-bucks-discount-price-money-dark-web-money-laundering-crime-a8717941.html

Credit card security vis game currencies is actually pretty easy to do, as you can link a particular credit card to a block of ingame currency and if that card becomes invalid you can then withdraw that block of currency. However, you need to implement systems to do that and create good communication links with credit card providers to become rapidly aware of fraud etc.

So the fact this black market trading is happening at all to this degree probably means Epic hasn’t done what it should have done and put the right systems in place. What this bodes for the store is another however, since we have little idea who’s handling IT security for the Epic Store. But if the V-Bucks stuff is any sign, this doesn’t appear to bode well. Though we can hopefully assume they’ve at least bothered to salt and hash the passwords. Hopefully.

Worst case actually is Epic hasn’t properly locked up the login system and it’s open to script kiddies to “play” with or that credit card info isn’t secure enough /shudder

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Slightly off topic as not just Epic… :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s a shame as while I can see some of the reasons I just really, really hate any exclusive release deal. I can understand it on shared console/PC games as everything is using different OS’s so it’s actually a lot of work to run on all…but on a PC it’s just pure “attempted” greed from whichever store is pushing the exclusive and hoping people don’t vote with their wallet and ignore exclusive deals.

It’s something that finishing my new pc build really bought home to me as it’s one thing to gradually add yet another launcher to a system, but suddenly having to put them all in at once made me realise how daft this is getting.

Back in the ol’ days :stuck_out_tongue: My game library was physical items on a side, or under a side, behind the settee or where ever I’d managed to drop a floppy or a cassette, but adding game librarys now means (and just off the top of my head) Steam, GoG, Uplay, Origin, Epic, Viveport, Itch, Bethesda, Discord (iirc), plus any I’ve forgotten. :eek:

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They’re not committed to a cause. One of the possible deals Epic cut with them is a MINIMUM SALARY if the game has low sales cause they knifed their fans in the back by jumping ship to Epic.

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I get the sentiment there, sure. I feel the reality of the situation is more complex tho. You are kinda holding it against them for being capitalists in a capitalist society. Putting it all down to mere greed simplifies (and vilifies) something that’s a lot more complex under the surface. There’s greed involved undoubtedly, but there is also competition in the equation because that’s how capitalism works. You aren’t going to go into a McDonald’s wanting a Whopper and throw a fit at Burger King for being exclusive with their Whopper are you? Nope. If you want that Whopper bad enough, you’ll drive down the street to their store and get it.

I know it isn’t a perfect comparison when it comes to gaming but it illustrates the reality of the system that operates around us and that drives companies to construct their own ecosystems.

Eh. Something tells me DoubleDamage aren’t sweating some “minimum salary”. Rebel Galaxy showed they got the chops to do well. Devs/companies do this ship-jumping activity all the time and I get the feeling Outlaw is going to do well for them regardless of how loud the haters get.

I just don’t buy into the whole “knifing fans in the back” theory by irrational people pretending DoubleDamage somehow owes them something. What, are you guys their parents? It’s one thing to disagree with their decision, it’s quite another when you envision it as some kind of personal attack like they broke a promise to you. Something tells me they were never out there making blood brother pacts with people.

If they did break a promise to you personally, hey, I love links. Post 'em up.

The Epic Games Store as described by Sergey Galyonkin (SteamSpy Creator, Currently At Epic) (Update: Sergey Clarifying Points on Twitter)

Anyway, wandered onto some more consumer-oriented Epic commentary in the above link. Finally.

Upcoming consumer-facing features

Responding to complaints about the EGS being focused on developers to the detriment of consumers, Galyonkin says that their initial focus was indeed on developers and that consumer-focused features are being worked on. Evidently, even certain things on the backend for developers aren’t fully finalized yet. Epic will be giving out free games every two weeks for the entirety of 2019 – 28 games in total, including those that was given out late 2018. New (client) features for consumers will be introduced gradually.

Cloud saves will be coming around February. Achievements will be there by the end of 2019. Reviews will also come eventually – I don’t recall a date being given at any point. As stated before, there will not be per-game forums, and Galyonkin also added that there wouldn’t be guides like on Steam. Developer pages on the store will also be implemented at a later date. Social features will be introduced, but it’ll be somewhat different from Steam’s, and he couldn’t give details yet. Limiting download speeds will also be an option. User profiles are planned for the beginning of "next year,” but I’m unsure whether he meant early 2019 or 2020.

The equivalent of Steam cards isn’t planned. Galyonkin says that they have an undesirable effect on purchasing decisions in the sense that people buy games that they don’t really want just for the cards. Unlocking (in-game) items like skins and things like that will be possible but not necessarily tradeable.

You’ll be able to launch non-Epic games through the launcher, like on Steam. You can already pull in friends lists from Steam, Galyonkin said. However, importing games directly from other platforms – like on GOG – will not be done. He doesn’t see the advantage of it.

As for mod support, Epic wants to apply their Support-A-Creator program to mods as well. They don’t know yet how it’ll work exactly. What is clear is that they don’t want to sell mods but would like mod creators to somehow get some amount of money. A mod manager was discussed briefly, but nothing concrete was said.

More social media integration is being looked at. Currently, it’s already possible to connect Facebook, VK, Steam, Twitch, PS, Switch, Xbox, and Google accounts.

Finally, they’re happy with the look of the store as it is now with its big tiles. Eventually things like categories will be introduced, but it sounds like this is basically the design they’ll be sticking with.

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Reading all of that only reinforces my opinion that I should not join this thing until next year, when all of the basic features are supposed to be done. No reviews, no game forums, no workshop, no guides? Ugh, nope.

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Sweet, figured they were going to do consumer facing stuff, although it would be good for them to have user guides available, as certain games don’t allow you to alt-tab out of fullscreen to switch to a browser. That and if you’re on a system with 8gb or less memory, running a browser and a game at the same time is often painful.

I see they are thinking about mods though, which is good since steam’s workshop is stupidly useful, however, an integrated mod manager + hub, preferably with or using instead nexus mods and moddb would be the best way to go. Heck, just add in the ability to launch vortex first instead of the game and you’ll have the mod happy crew drooling. Heck, make every thing easier for devs with snap in api’s combined with good user stuff and it’ll likely attract people away from using steam for mod heavy games.

Oh and any workshop like system needs better useability, since steam workshop is f*cking painful to browse through hundreds of items. Particularly for builder games like Space engineers. Where I’m dreading going through the current backlog I’ve built up…

While anything that isn’t a donation system vis money and mods can go die in a fire. Because if the devs want profit from mods they can f*cking hire the modder(s) and get them to make DLC or game content instead.

As for forums - this is something that could in be skipped, but would need to have links on the info pane for each game to relevant forums. Otherwise, frankly, they should introduce user forums, as the convenience for users of not having yet another login and just being use the launcher to access them is significant. Yes, they’re a pain to moderate, but a lot of that pain can be skipped, if you don’t do what steam did and make it hard for devs etc to elevate community members to mod their forum. Thus allowing for toxic sh*theads to be easily controlled and banned without wasting developer resources. Similarly you just elevate suitable users to global mod powers and have paid spam cops + admins to keep things in line.

Of course that all costs money, but on the other hand, it helps create a mostly nice place for users and devs etc to talk and help each other. Which in turn helps make it more attractive to users and thus foster users to use the Epic Store as their default one. Which usually translates to greater user loyalty and thus likely a small, but significant bump in sales.

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time to set sail and become a pirate once again! :cool: