FWIW mortars are only monstrous in cruci. It’s one of the true specialist builds out there.
Did anybody tried the set in Shattered Realm? Don’t know why people are still using Glad Cruc as a measure stick when SR after a certain shard is more difficult.
Tried. It’s more diffucult 'cause often u need to run and this makes mortars missing a lot. And as for small arena in sr 65+, u have no time to place many mortars because of insta-aggro of all bosses.
Pretty sure it’s not gonna be reliable on SR. Previous mortar builds that had better defense would run around like chickens. Pyran has worse defense
Because it’s less random, there is no aggro abuse and it checks not just character tankiness and single target damage but every possible aspect of the build.
There is also no good way to measure a build by its SR performance because of how different boss areas can be and how very specific builds (tanky dot casters or shielded-tanks) excel while a lot of other builds (2h-autoattackers, dw-autoattackers, spam-caster, some pet builds, etc.) naturally struggle there.
That said measuring builds by their Crucible performance is far from perfect but it’s the best we’ve got.
No, it isn’t. A build can literally trash Cruc and then procceed to be crushed by SR. Also, SR isn’t as random as it was before, the boss rooms have become less and less random. It’s also not much different than getting random Nemeses in specific Crucible waves which can greatly impact a run.
I feel some people are still having trouble to “wean” off the Crucible standard, not wanting to accept something more challenging has been introduced. Yes, SR is more challenging than Crucible and by the logic of some people, that should be the standard. And yet some still cling to Crucible for some reason.
I don’t want to get into lenghty discussion but I think I have more cred to talk about what does and what doesn’t define meta and how builds are measured in endgame.
I don’t have any personal stake in Crucible or SR, but every elite builder will tell you that right now Crucible defines endgame builds meta.
Maybe when SR becomes trully less random and less catering to very specific kind of builds then it will change.
So you don’t think,Crucible is the best measure of a build?
Ok,it’s your opinion.But SR will always be more random.Almost every top tier build can cut through any combination in Cruci.Try best melee in SR against Slatasar or Grava.
So defense matters more in SR,cause there are no buffs to hold you,but in SR you can beat it with almost 0 damage and is impossible to measure offensive efficiency.
No, i don’t think so. I know several builds from several people that trashed Cruc and then went to SR only to die easily.
Grava exists in Crucible. The reason i also don’t think Crucible can’t be used as a measuring stick is because it’s missing essential enemies like the Ancient Groves mobs. There’s no Gargabol or Aethergaze, those would make a big difference in Crucible.
The issue i have with giving feedback on Pyran set is that it trashes Crucible because enemies have super low health compared to the main campaign and SR, meaning they die much quicker. A dead enemy can’t hurt you.
But then it doesn’t do very well in SR because enemies live far longer. So what will the set be balanced around?
SR got boring for me after the initial patch. Same way as a lot of you guys hate cruci, I hate SR. Simple stuff. If you wanna give feedback on Pyran based on SR the do it. We don’t have the data. Maybe someone does, who knows.
Also, I think I mentioned this before. But the cruci standard isn’t because it’s the hardest content, but because it’s the most efficient farming method available for us. Some chars farm realms faster but despite the challenge and the better loot cruci is still faster and smoother for many other builds. There’s a reason superboss builds aren’t so popular here.
That is word for word the reason the majority of Crucible players use to say that Crucible is the measuring stick for build viability. That is the hardest content. Now it isn’t?
Sorry, Crucible isn’t the standard for build viability anymore. It can’t be. If the reason to test builds is to use them against the hardest content, which is the same reason people use Crucible before, then SR has to be it. But the mental gymanstics people are now using to justify Crucible as something that does that still when harder content exists, just tells me people have trouble accepting that Crucible can’t be used for build viability measuring anymore.
Oh, people, this again? Ofc it’s crucible. SR cares not for the lifeblood of all aRPG - dps. It’s a heavily rng-ed, quasi-exploratory survival mode. Its design is totally inconsistent with the idea of measuring build’s performance in any rounded way. Saying I did 75 in 6:32 means nothing, sounds like a joke.
Moreover, high SR performance is only achievable by a very narrow range of builds. Saying that SR should be used to measure builds is like saying please make GD less diverse. SR advocate tanky boring meta where dmg is a secondary concern (!) and builds are playable by using your feet on the mouse and keyboard while you can eat dinner. I hate SR.
As for the topic of the thread, no, Pyran isn’t for deep SR. Ofc one can make it so. One can go for Menhir, MoD, Targos, Dryad, Tree of Life, etc. And effectively kill the soul of the build.
So now 4 (FOUR!) people who are known for making great endgame builds that can crush both Crucible and SR wrote you that yes, Crucible does define meta because of this and that and SR doesn’t define meta, well, not nearly as much, because of this and that.
And yet you keep being stubborn for no particular reason. Jesus, dude, no offense, but your expertise on everything endgame is extremely lacking and you just keep showing it again and again.
I mean, the community cares about crucible clear times therefore it matters. This is Crate’s stance, nothing to argue about. Or take it up with the devs if you don’t like it.
So yes, Pyran clear times with shieldbreaker is nuts and the dps output is too high. But the defensive side is also too low.
In Crucible it kills everything before anything can fight back. Once enemies live long enough to fight back the character dies fast in SR.
That’s just flat out false. The standard is whatever the builder wants it to be. There are still a majority of builders who build for cruci and you can do nothing about that except somehow making them not play cruci anymore.
No, madLee, SR does define meta. You see those AAR binders going for Menhir and those Deathmarked using MoD. You see people claiming that 2.5k armor is just so-so and spending 3 skillpoints for 1% phys res.
It just doesn’t do it the way I personally like and the way I think is beneficial to the diversity of GD and integrity of its meta.
SR was designed to be fun, full of randomness and (for lack of a better word) surprise. Dying doesn’t end your run (in theory), and certain shards can be either trivial or impossible. SR wasn’t designed as a speedrun mode to measure anything.
If a considerable part of the community insists on building for SR, so be it. I don’t like it but who cares.
Not sure if sole Norzan can be counted as “considerable part of community” but ok, only building Fire builds with Empyrion and Menhir’s Obelisk from now on!!11
Crucible is surely the best place to test builds for their offensive abilities. Because there a little to no variables. You know the spawn points, you know the buffs, you know the enemies and with Grim Internals you even can choose your “hunting ground”. Mutators are one of these variables but they have less impact than on SR (fewer) when it comes to suvivability. In my opinion, the current meta in Crucible is: “As much offensive power as possible, as much defense as needed.”
SR is whole different approach: Expect the unexpected. Use your own buffs (consumables) because you don´t know if there will be a shrine to help you. You don´t know what spawns in a boss room or even which boss room you get. More mutators. Health matters. And, to “Aggro Abuse” 
…well, has anyone played deep SR (70+) after the patch? Maybe I am clumsy as hell, maybe it´s the Blade Spirits…but, doesn´t matter which room, I always get aggro from more than 1 boss (min. 2 or 3). Zantai already said that it is not intentional for one room (spawn point of toon), but I even get it in the large lava room.
So, if a toon can reliably clear Shards (Screenshot with no red timer), it can´t be a bad build or a “Beehunter” 
, even if it´s clear time in Crucible is not at 6:00 minutes.
great, so you want to nerf demolitionist again becase shieldbreakers are yet again an outlier in terms of performance?!
Come on!
maybe fix the rr from celestial presence to be more in line with other passive rr tools and you won’t see shieldbreakers with such outlier performances with all sets (shard 94 infernal knight, then Ulzuin, now this…)
Or: hope for the expected, expect to die from the unexpected. 