[Feedback/suggestion] Sets dedicated to DB fall short of non-set DB builds

Yes and no: https://www.grimtools.com/calc/O2G4xrnV - the scepter is actually the best item for vit DB spam.

I think this might give @superfluff’s DB spammer a run for its money.

EDIT: I do wish the %vit on the scepter was of equal value to its aether counterpart though

That or #aetherHarvesterOfBoners

You might be right. Either way, it’s been changed for some time though.

I stand corrected then. The Vit Decay modifier still isn’t good though :stuck_out_tongue:.

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my point is, that it isn’t ‘great’ if you merely focus on a part of it, as can be seen on clairvoyants. Reap Spirit has quite a lot of modifiers, but it falls short compared to DB, so much, that even you suggest do instead change it to a different skill.
Doesn’t that already kind of underlines that you need more than focusing on the caster part to make it good? That even if you fulfill two parts, it won’t be a ‘great’ skill?
Okay, I may merely not know it, but in which build does Reap Spirit really shine? And not a meme build that clearly underperforms because it is a hybrid that can’t do either great. Maybe it is better in pets than I thought, though if so, it is because of the pet and not because of the skill itself, since that is guaranteed to deal next to no damage in such a setup.

It just means that reap spirit is a victim of power creep. It really is meant to be used in a pet build.

I think the skill mod on clairvoyant’s is a relic of the past

@maya’s bysmiel + diviner pet build

EDIT: @safarel also made a pretty cool diviner binder back in AoM which used devastation + reap spirit. not sure how it’d perform now though.

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Maya has done plenty of builds with it. Off the top of my head, there’s a pet Diviner Defiler and Cabalist out there.

Just had a cursory look around the forums and will admit there haven’t been many Diviner casters posted. Spanks mentioned Safarel’s build which is one of the earliest and has beaten Lokarr. Saw’s Spellbinder also cleared Gladiator 170 just before Forgotten Gods, with the changes to Crucible recently though, someone would have to recreate and test it otherwise.

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All my Reap Spirit based builds:

yes, but my preamble still stands - it is merely good in pet builds. So while I was wrong on that point, it still means that thedamage side of Reap Spirit is lackluster.

It really is. Hence my suggestion to leave it as a pet skill.

EDIT - mobility augments deal more damage than reap spirit supported by a full item set

I think it’s neat having a skill that can be used and invested on by player damage builds and pet damage builds and as far as I can recall, Reap Spirit is the only one making it unique in this regard.

Item skills cannot be effected by % CDR.

Diviner + the Conduit + M. Aethereach pushes Reap Spirit up to 300% Weapon damage and average 1350 base Aether damage on a cooldown of 1s (before % CDR). Please enlighten me on what mobility skills can do the same.

The above is again why I think Reap Spirit should be taken off Clairvoyant and left to Diviner as Clairvoyant does not do nearly enough OR Clairvoyant needs significant changes to Reap Spirit evident by what Diviner does for the skill to make it viable.


+1, if that’s not possible just adding more dmg to the mod could work aswell maybe?

Idk, the set kinda lacks identity tbh, or rather the identity that it tries to have doesn’t suit it at all imo. Vitality (or chaos) Aegis of Menhir would make sense, but neither do Flames of Ignaffar (black flame set does it better) nor Doom Bolt (non set DB chars with offhand or even dual pistols to a better job). The FoI part kinda makes
more sense with a shield than the doombolt caster part, but is being overshadowed by black flame big time. The set needs a redesign and should rather support supportive skills from Inquisitor/Occultist masteries. Vitality Sentinels could have shield mods for Blood of Dreeg or vitality paladins could have RR on Word of Pain. For chaos dmg Sentinels really would need some RR mods as Sentinel has 0 chaos RR by default, so chaos RR to Pox/CoF is almost mandatory. For chaos paladins how about some shield mods for word of renewal.

Change DB boni to chaos RR to Pox/CoF and a reasonable shield bonus (+x% block chance/damage blocked/block cdr).
Change FoI boni to vitality RR to WoP and give Word of Renewal a reasonable shield bonus (+x% block chance/damage blocked/block cdr).

PS: I would love if crate made another shield set for FoI, but for fire instead! Shield paladins/purifiers burning enemies with FoI would be dope.

I recently played with Diviner Spellbinder on SR75 and CR170. Although not as powerful as AAR, I was able to clear it. So it ’s okay.
However, most of the damage comes from Devastation, not from Reap Sprit.lol

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Good point.

I wasn’t being clear here. What I meant to say is that clairvoyant’s reap spirit can get outdamaged by mobility augments. many of which also deal significant AoE.

Also, mobility augments do benefit from eternity, so there’s that.

Biggest problem with voidsoul aegis is that it literally defeats itself for several reasons:

  1. Despite how it might appear on the surface, chaos and vitality damage are 2 very different damage types. The overlaps they share are more or less limited to items, dying god, and s olael/second rite + Possession. In other words, the fire/vit conversion on voidsoul aegis actually gimps the build as you cannot benefit from the innate elemental to chaos conversion on both helm/chest. What even is the point of those conversions anyway?

  2. Conversely if you tried making voidsoul aegis a vitality based skill (e.g. lunal’valgoth belt), the conversions on the helm/chest piece once again gimps you as you can’t stack any flat elemental damage on aegis other than fire (e.g. soul harvest would be very meh). The occultist might work here, but again - voidsoul’s doom bolt modifiers will render DB worthless.

  3. Strongest thing about aegis is how reprisal + avenging shield synergize. This is especially true for damage types which lack DoT (i.e. chaos). In other words, the +1s CD modifier on voidsoul straight up opposes the strongest aspect of aegis. This is further worsened by the utter lack of %CDR in the set. So unless it boasts some ridiculous (and arbitrary) total damage modifier value like 200%, I would much rather forgo the damage bonus for a significant flat CDR.
    Or better yet - reduce the number of targets aegis can hit, add a slight damage penalty, and make chaos aegis spam possible with a 100% CDR.


Damage penalty should be slight as any class capable of stacking relevant % & flat chaos damage to aegis will lack the necessary RR to make it shine.

Great example - dark flame AAR warlock < Dark flame AAR mage hunter.

When I wrote my text about voidsoul, I didn’t mean that the aegis part is perfect rn. It also needs some changes, but at least chaos/vitality aegis fits the theme of the set and we also have no other set doing the same thing better. There is 0 reason to have two chaos FoI sets and Doom Bolt with a shield is just eh… we already got options for that.
About the aegis part of the set:

That is true and a build should never try to focus on both of these anyway, always either chaos or vitality. I actually think that the conversion are good though, fire (which has burn in the aegis line) gets converted to vitality and physical (which has no IT on aegis) gets converted to chaos. So far so good, not DoT left unconverted (looking at you Allagast with unconverted DoT on Frozen Core). Now if we take into account that usually an endgame build tried to streamline all of its main dmg abilitiy’s dmg into one damage type, obviously both vitality and chaos Aegis lack about 50% (a little less) of the damage that a proper endgame build would have. Crate tries to make up for that with a total damage modifier, which is imo the right way to do it, but it is too low. 70% modifier gives you +70% damage and not the +100% that the set would need. Basically the build still has 15% less damage than any other endgame build that just relies on fully streamlining its damage to one damage type. Usually endgame builds have modifiers for their main ability on top and so does Voidsoul. It provides 20% extra weapon damage, which only helps chaos builds as the shield has flat chaos, but since chaos has no DoT and the flat vit/chaos values are exactly the same on aegis after the conversion it seems fair that chaos gets additional flat dmg. Again I think this is fine and a good way to balance out chaos/vitality damage after the conversion. The one thing that might be puzzling for people is: why +1 second skill recharge? And it honestly also puzzles me especially since the total damage modifier is too low.

^wall of text, so here is the TL;DR: imo conversions on voidsoul are fine, mods are fine, EXCEPT total damage mod. 70% is too low, it has to be at least 100% imo.

Conversion values on chest/helm could also be changed around together with scrapping FoI and DB mods imo.

As I said under the comment to 1., increase total damage mod to at least 100% and the +1s cdr is also kinda puzzling. Either remove it and have total damage mod at 100% or don’t remove it, but either give the set CDR or increase the total damage mod to an even higher value. +1s gives you a ~23% dmg loss (without taking resets into account) and a ~20% dmg loss (with taking 20% reset chance into account). This would mean that the total damage mod would have to be at least 140%.

TL;DR: Voidsoul aegis would be fine, if the total damage mod was doubled from 70% to 140% or if the mod was increased to at least 100% while the +1 sec mod was removed.

@rektbyprotoss: With all due respect mate, I disagree.

I’ve tried making a voidsoul sentinel, and had a horrible time out of it.

9 minutes Buffed/bannered clear.

Increasing the total damage modifier to 140% isn’t going to help that much simply because of inconsistency.

Aegis really really hits hard only when it crits.

So, assuming you have a 12% chance to crit reaper (which you REALLY need to crit because of his high chaos res), it’ll take you on average 8 aegis tosses to crit him once.

Assume also that you have 22/12 reprisal (which is impossible to get without gimping the build) - i.e. 25% chance of 100% CDR, you’ll basically get 2 free tosses out of these 8 throws.

In other words, it’ll take 3.5s * 6 = 21 seconds to crit him ONCE with aegis.

Which is a joke given the fact that he’d probably still be alive. IIRC he has 3.7mil HP.

So no. Either pump up the damage on it to a ridiculous amount, or let us score crits far more frequently on voidsoul aegis by lowering the CD significantly.

Regarding your point on conversion…given how gimped the set already is, I don’t see why it shouldn’t have perfect conversion like blood knight bone harvest.

sad warlock noises.

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I don’t think we disagree that much except on the conversion stuff.

Isn’t every Aegis build this type of inconsistent though?

Yes this is exactly what I said, the values I mentioned are supposed to be the minimum values by which it needs to be buffed. If you think those values should be higher, I’m completely fine with that.

My apologies. :stuck_out_tongue:

I must’ve misunderstood you.

Octavius has both CD and a flat CDR mod to aegis. Virtue set gives you like 25% CDR. Both of them allow for much greater consistency.

Furthermore, they all benefit from DoTs and perfect conversion.

The only exception here is voidsoul - the deformed runt of the trio

EDIT: last, and certainly not least, the most gimped of the 3 sets also utilizes the least supported damage type

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True. The answer to that is, as we both already know and both have said, either way more %total damage mod or CDR. :smile:

Or streamlined conversion as you mentioned, but then the %total damage mod is probably ok as it is.

I’d prefer Voidsould to keep its current conversions, so that it serves as a chaos and vitality set at the same time, allowing chaos and vitality builds (seperate builds) to exist. This really needs huge %total damage mod to come close to fully converted versions and probably more %WD for chaos variant as vit RR is much easier to get than chaos RR.

I’d love for this to work, but mechanically I don’t see how it’d be possible.

Unless, of course, the devs intend for voidsoul to be a sub-optimal set, which is totally fine btw.

Not all sets have to be created equal.

I just think chaos aegis is super cool, and want it to be competitive.