Ayam strikes again
1 Like
On the topic, I see no reason why physical augments should give less flat than elemental ones. On the contrary, phys builds need to stack it higher than others because of the armor mechanics.
As for why the fire augment is worse than cold or lightning, also no idea. Lightning is best by far with flat oa and both flat and % dmg. Cold is ok - though Iâd rather see flat da than 2% - but cold is kinda crap in general unless it converts from lightning so it deserves a good augment. The fire augment is quite terrible, and itâs often better to use elemental ones.
2 Likes
Iâm curious about this. What about Whipvine Powder? Is it only a problem with augments? What about other sources of character-wide flat physical damage?
According to @ceno, itâs a problem with all sources of physical damage:
- Devotions
- Augments
- Items (e.g. flat damage on oleronâs belt)
Iâm not sure about flat damage from masteries (e.g. mogdrogenâs pact), but one would think that these sources of flat damage would be summed first before being gimped by enemy armor; and one would be wrong.
Each of these sources of physical damage will be individually reduced by enemy armor.
The same rule applies to conversion.
E.g: Iâm using beronath reforged. I have 20 chaos damage, and 20 cold damage.
These 2 converted damage sources are likewise viewed as âindependentâ damage sources, and so will be separately reduced by enemy armor.
I wish I could find the thread (and it greatly surprises me that I canât; perhaps it was purged in the forum move? But I recall both medierra and Zantai commenting in itâŚ) but I donât think this is necessarily true:
The general idea was that a âsourceâ would be separate skills or items. I think global buffs should still be added together, but rings/amulets/medals/belts/other armor/passives (devotion nodes are passives in disguise)/etc. are evaluated separately. However, if you had a dual-damage skill (Say, Cold/Chaos) and you converted both to Physical, I think they should sum together on that skill itself. Different damages on the same source should be evaluated at the same time.
Oh, I was referring to converting 2 different damage types to a skill like cadence.
E.g. The conversion from lethal assault on a cadence using Targo BM
In which case your evaluation is accurate.
I will note one thing, however, and that is that
this is patently not true, as the game (and enemy Phys resist) has been balanced around the aforementioned armor bug. Physical is âcomparableâ with other damage types (whether its high or low on the spectrum doesnât matter, itâs not a weak anomaly), and to start changing values around the armor bug would have disastrously overpowering consequences. When I made an estimate some months/years ago, I believe I came to the conclusion that if the armor bug were fixed or Physical given values to compensate for the bugâs existence, Physical would be around 60-80% stronger (multiplicative) than it currently is. Yikes.
Having said all that, I still voted yes on the poll. Yesterday.
(Edit: Elaborating on my reasoning above in case it wasnât clear. I donât think the aforementioned Augments should be buffed because âPhysical needs to stack things to higher degrees because of the armor bug.â That logic is flawed, as I wrote about above. Instead, I think the aforementioned augments should be buffed because even if there wasnât an Armor bug and we could treat Physical like any other damage type, those augments still look rather poor. Physical was balanced under the assumption that it was mostly ordinary and all of its sources summed together. That logic was later found to be flawed, but Physical was still balanced that way, and it worked. So to suddenly diverge from that flawed rhetoric would be quite a bad idea.)
2 Likes
Meanwhile Physical Pets be like
3 Likes
As a non-pet player, yes, Iâd assume they are afflicted the most by the armor issue. Not sure what the solution is that doesnât overwhelmingly buff other archetypes via Phys->X conversion.
1 Like
I assume giving armor shred to pets should work.
Would it? Because all sources are evaluated independently, youâd either need a helluva lot of shred or a helluva lot of % damage. Or both. Again, not a pet player, but I wouldnât have pegged reducing enemy armor to be a reasonable solution. Even if you got rid of, say, 600 armor, enemies would still have much more than most solo sources tend to accrue on player builds. Though I can imagine some funny multiplayer SR strats where one pet deletes enemy armor and then a Cadence lad rolls up and removes screens from existenceâŚ
I mean, yes numbers would dictate effectiveness.
Giving +% physical dmg also should work since there arenât any pet items that convert Pet dmg into Physical.
In my uneducated opinion, the solution ought to be IT damage.
Since DoT applied by multiple pets stack, this seems like the most straightforward solution
Something still doesnât make sense to me.
Suppose a character has 2000% physical damage bonus total. Then 10 physical damage would become 10*(1 + 2000%/100%) = 210 damage. Typical armor values for endgame bosses are over 2000, so wouldnât that paltry 210 damage get fully absorbed? What factor(s) am I missing here that would increase that damage by the order of magnitude necessary just to pass armor?
In fact as a general point, I (still) donât quite get how players can hit up to 1 million crits from base flat damage totaling only in the hundreds or maybe around a thousand. I mean, thatâs an over 1000x increase in damage. Where and how exactly does that come from?
After years of playing GD this is still a mystery to me.
Itâs not about increasing armor beyond that point, itâs that armor is only 70% effective without +% Armor Absorption, of which all monsters only have 0%.
30% always gets through.
https://www.grimdawn.com/guide/gameplay/combat/#q19
Edit: In more mathematical terms:
If DMG > Armor, damage taken = (DMG - Armor) + ((DMG - Armor) * 0.3) = 1.3 * (DMG - Armor)
If DMG < Armor, damage taken = DMG * 0.3
DMG -> Incoming Damage
1 Like
While this also works, IT can get converted though. So it will also buff Pet elemental dmg.
As I remember (Unfortunately I havnât game at hand) Ultimate difficulty adds 7,5% Armor absorbtion.
Besides, Critical damage multiplyer calculates before pass armor.
2 Likes
How can one confirm this?
The worth of flat Physical damage against armour was discussed sometime ago and even had Zantai chime in to clarify a few things. Itâs worth looking over this post and the 2 below it for some insight.
2 Likes
Itâs honestly starting to get frustrating seeing people saying that stacking multiple sources of flat physical is somehow counterproductive because it means you will do less damage. The whole game is balanced around the fact that enemy armor block each source of physical damage, meaning you want to stack as many flat physical sources as possible.
I mean, when even a dev chimes in to clarify things, some people still think stacking multiple flat physical sources is still a bad thing. After the dev told them thatâs not true at all.