Okaloth’s Visage and Mythical Grim Fate convert all of Sigil’s damage into Fire damage. Sounds simple enough, right? Except the helmet has a weird Retaliation to Attack added to Sigil, so I tested it to see if the Sigil portion of this item is worth anything? It’s not.
Here’s the set-up I used. Note that it has practically no CC resistances (unless Ascension is up, which is around 40% of the time), no useful Sigil mods like Cooldown reduction or duration (since more pressing items like appropriate conversions take up all the slots), and is overall as durable as a paper bag. I thought that the new overall buffs to retaliation damage would help bump up the damage to sigils, but without a point of reference to other sigil builds, I can’t tell what is the average sigil damage to shoot for.
Anyway, I propose 2 buffs:
Increase the RATA portion of Sigil to 20%.
Add a cooldown / duration modifier to Grim Fate.
It won’t stop the build from crumpling to every big hit, but being able to stack more sigils might help it out in SR. I assume it’s destined to be a SR65 meme farmer, but for a MI helm that’s from a major boss battle, I expect better from this helm.
I assume the RATA adds about 9,000 to the Sigil’s sheet damage due to the Fire retaliation, but are we really going to say that’s worth giving up valuable duration mods to get the retaliation necessary, especially since Fire doesn’t have the advantages of gearing to get the duration mods like Vitality, Chaos, and Acid mods have? Heck, is the retaliation worth using over just using Blazeseer like tqfan’s build does?
Both of these is a clear No, as the build is far too squishy to tank the enemies necessary for the Retaliation to do something, and without the duration mods, it will fall behind the other Sigil damage types in viability. And no, I’m not assuming a triple rare Shield that magically does Fire damage as I assume the affixes are weighted towards Vitality damage (and what damage type is paired with Vitality, like Acid).
Your build is supposed to be hybrid Retal and Normal damage, right? I wonder how would just 100% focused retal (i.e. no Grim Fate as it doesn’t do anything for Retal) perform. It’s possible that actually worse than your hybrid. Also you’d probably need some other retal damage source like Righteous Fervor or DEE to optimize DPS. Btw the pure Fire build I play actually turned to be very nice in SR - YouTube thanks to this AoE leech.
It was meant to demonstrate how much Fire damage you can get on a Sigil by combining Retal and normal damage and getting as close to 22/12 for Sigil and Destruction as possible, yes. Considering how there’s no equipment in the game that gives Fire Retal + Sigil of Consumption points (outside the helmet, of course), pure retal would be horrible. There’d be no Vitality to Fire conversion that also gives retal damage, finding points for Sigil as well as another leech source like Righteous Fervor (don’t forget Smite!) would be a nightmare, and then you’re left wondering why are you including Sigil in the first place.
Getting the right gear to get the necessary skillpoints + retaliation damage is hard enough. Especially since gear that gives +skills to retaliation skills like Aspect of the Guardian and Rebuke are in short supply. Devotions don’t really give that much help, either, when there’s multiple RATA devotions that are all over the place without a clear T3 devotion (not to mention that they also require a lot of %weapon damage to function properly as well, look at Hylian, Targo’s, and Trample).
Making a RATA build requires a ton of pieces to fall exactly in the right spot, and random mods like RATA to Sigil just isn’t worth it without major modifiers.
This does not look like your described retal hybrid to me at all - there’s just no retal.
Makes me really curious about how a pure Sigil Retal Character would perform (never made or seen one).
Only then, I’d say we can doom the helmet.
Actually, anything aside from Acid with Raddagan set is a travesty for SoC. Because othly with that set SoC gets low enough CD to be a proper main skill.
Most SoC items might seem nice on paper, but in fact they’re useless as they dont reduce SoC CD.
trozan sigil works fine, literally just 0.5sec cd difference between radaggan and trozan, and for trozan you could even get the cdr on 1 slot alone if you didn’t care about cold conversion
2.4s recharge is a bit much compared to Radaggan
Though those 12% rata are stackable to up to 4 sigils, resulting in a steady 48% rata every second on a stationary foe.
Sounds promising to me.
not sure what you’re arguing, if you’re arguing that 1.5 sec cd is better than 1 sec, obviously it’s a little better
if you’re attempting to argue that somehow magically trozan sigils doesn’t work because of 0.5sec cd less, then i don’t know what world you’re inhabiting, because trozan sigils is fine
maybe it’s rata sigil that’s not fine (unsurprising since it seems to be a frequent theme on niche rata skills?)
it’s just not a lot of retal, to be taken advantage of on a rata skill, so the skill itself needs “substantial” regular dmg/boost
and all it has is 150 flat dmg modifier
in that case you gotta go with of Thorns and Physical Retal I suppose so my idea is combining it with Stoneguard and retal RF + WPS? Despite the Phy → Vit on the shield (one would need to low roll ii). Physical Retal doesn’t bypass armor right?
If allowed to roll some not weird rare Retal affix on the Bonewall, the best build would most probably be combining it with some Aegis Retal spam, Acid for example, as a filler, since these are top retal builds now.
That looks to be around 24,000 Physical damage on the Sigil when you consider all conversions (including the Physical to Vitality on the Shield)? Around the same damage as the fire version, but with much more tankiness. I like it.
I’m still of the opinion that Sigil is far too dependent on that Bonewall Shield to the detriment of any other types that try to use something else. The items that give Fire damage to Sigil don’t give any retal, and the retal items don’t give any support to Sigil. Trying to make a hybrid that supports both just ends up in disaster, as my experience shows. That begs the question: What’s the point of adding Rata to Sigil if the helmet is only going to be used for the conversion in the first place?
I did a quick juggle and threw on this shield Flamebreaker and with various items targeting fire retal and most of your typical retal nodes: I was looking at around 125K + fire retal damage.
So whereas this shield gives some flexibility on a main weapon and even maybe some weapon conversion (more retal for Aegis or lightning → fire + rings, etc.), I think you could maybe also use a 2-H with some retal (Hellborne?).
The shield build ended up being a mix of Aegis and Sigil Retal, but it looked like it might be ok. it was a Sentinel build with Hydrians devotion instead of Obelisk, + Messenger, Phoenix, Boar, Solael, Crown, etc.
I didn’t flesh it out much more as it needed a think to find some OA and I didn’t have time. Also, block % were pretty low so it also would require some thought to avoid too much reliance on these type of procs. (ie, pick alternate options, if available).
TLDR: I think it might work, but it won’t look like a standard fire build for sigil. It wasn’t solely reliant on Sigil, either - as it also had Aegis. Imho, you can’t do hybrid retal and normal damage for Sigil…without hurting one or the other too much. % normal fire damage wasn’t bad, though, and% Retal was decent.
The retal to attack to Sigil on Okaloth helm should be like 0,5 secs CDR to Sigil instead in my opinion. Really don’t get the point of trying to make retal sigil a thing.
in that case you gotta go with of Thorns and Physical Retal I suppose so my idea is combining it with