it’s tied to a quest reward(quest you obtain in campaign mode), that quest just happen to be to clear SR…12?now
i’ll be a bit disingenuous and argue in essence it’s little different than a quest asking you to clear a skeleton key dungeon, difference is devs happened (so far) to not attach the point reward to the dungeon quest(s)
You’re basically just disliking the objective of the quest, while having been fortunate to not dislike other (important) quests the game gave you, yet(FoA caveat)
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Age of Empires/Mythology series has some remakes and stuff. But that’s about it and has been about it for decades. Nothing decent has come out 
Makes me sad because RTS is my favorite genre of games. I hope Crate can knock one out of the park with whatever their RTS is they’re working on 
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Yes, i love the older school type ARPG like Grim Dawn. These new ones are “Rubbish” with end game this and end game that. Also MTX shit
Sadly the “End Game” trend that follows for ARPG is these PVP design RTS games, lol. You can check out Godsworn, very nice RTS
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If you’ve done them once on one character you can craft the waystones and just run 1 shard and be done with it, get all your rewards in one go. (I forgot which one you need to get the rewards)
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Thanks for the suggestion. Though I’m super hesitant of any pre-release games. Not because they’re bad, but just because they’re unfinished and in constant state of flux. 
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The main reason why i love Grim Dawn is for the campaign, and the new Ascendant mode sounds good. This is the type of end game that i like, not really the others
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I’ve tried allot of new RTS, Godsworn is the only one i bought as EA, you may support them, it’s a promising RTS game, and true to classic RTS too.
It’s a prequel to GD; set on Cairn in a pre-GD era. It’s partly the reason why we’re getting a 3rd expansion because the Kurn will feature in the RTS and Crate decided it would be a good idea to give some background/history about them in GD.
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Let’s hope it’s a true classic
RTS, Shmups, Beat’em Up, Rail shooters - many genres bit the dust over the years. However, if you study their demise, you can notice a pattern: a big boom of similar games, followed by a steady decline of bored players.
ARPGs won’t be any different. We have reached the peak (POE, arguably) and now we’re just getting more and more “dynamic difficulty” Diablo3 clones with Greater Rift as an endgame mechanic.
ARPGs will die off and will be replaced by something else. Just as MOBA replaced RTS. The format is already tiresome, stale and repeated ad nauseaum.
But the worst part is, the devs of MOST of those games think that “Greater rift” is some sort of holy grail of gaming.
I hope we get Grim Dawn 2 and that it’ll be awesome, and not just another “15 hours of braindead, then greater rifts” garbage again. I think Crate knows how to make a good game. I have faith.
beat 'em ups Steam Search
shoot 'em ups Steam Search
*not meant to argue
Just didn’t feel right with me, since i had/have the opposite sentiment on those two genres; steam annoyingly recommend them to me “often” 
(and i feel like i see them in game bundles frequently too)
if by bit the dust you mean quality tier or some “true” version (eg how diablo 1-2 might be considered a true arpg while d3/d4 not so by some), then that could b. Since i dont’ play these types of games i’ve no clue about their quality contents or “purist” genre adherence, - i’ll just keep looking puzzled when steam tosses one in my queue 
*i’m assuming the reason i get stuff recommended is owning things like ex River City Ransom: Underground on Steam, which i got in one of the aforementioned bundles i think 
These are nothing alike imho. I have absolutely zero interest in MOBA games. The great thing about RTS games is, in my humble opinion, that you have to manage your economy at the same time as your army. So you balance various resources and secure them on the map, while trying to disrupt the enemy taking them by surprise in one way or another. And this works best on a random map where you have to adjust your strategy to the circumstances. Fixed maps end up with one best strategy (or maybe a handful) and then you can execute it with your eyes closed
Anyway, not really on topic
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Yeah. And I do that. I believe it is haunted waystone. But I really enjoy doing SSF with the exception that I have that SR grind staring me in the face. Again it would be nice if the devs could somehow remove that seemingly endless grind to get those points (3 attribute and 1 skill).
the game was sitting at a very positive 80+/almost 90 before the recent update 
unsure what type of the jury is in gotcha argument recent reviews in a game still in early access development is
To me it says the game was highly liked, and an update was disagreed on, an update that could or could not be rectified to get back to that 80-90 range prior
How easy that will be/if the devs listen is another matter, but it hardly makes it a mental statement to go by considering how much people jizzed in their pants over this game on release…
SR squish has already helped a lot with that. (I also play SSF a lot, so I can identify with the pain.)
And yet, DOTA gave birth to MOBA, and DOTA was a custom map in Wacraft 3 (an RTS), so…
It turns out people simply enjoy more micro, less macro. And MOBA is in fact an RTS of the extreme: one (or few) powerful units and zero macro.
Arguably, the other genre that evolved from the defunct RTS is “Tower defense”. Which again plays on some extremes of RTS while just dropping the others (like resource gathering or expanding).
True. It was supposed to be about FoA release date.
But I think it’s quite a nice discussion anyway.
There’s not much to discuss on topic anyway. We can repeat the good old “it’s worth the wait” or “done when it’s done” truisms/cope for the next 20 years on boards like these, ultimately the developer decides when the game is ready, not us.
Best we can do is nicely ask Crate to give us some progress updates (other than Grim Misadventures of course) and/or estimates.
I’d love to just hear “guys, it’s been pushed back to Q4 2025” or something.
I should have clarified that I never meant indie games.
Pretty much everything from your list is indie.
Indie games are often quick cash grabs praying on nostalgia and the fact that there are, in fact, no new non-indie games of those kinds.
I am not an Indie game hater of course, some of them are brilliant.
But no big studio does triple-AAA shmups or beat’em ups. Or RTS. Those are dead genres.
There are more of those defunct genres: 2d platformers, 3d platformers (even though there has been a massive wave of indie games OFC, perhaps to fill a void), collectatons, classic point&click games, and many more.
Sorry for OT.
was shmups ever non indie?
i don’t recall much of them from the non arcade days post ps1 era atleast
I’d argue that Sega Mega Drive (“Genesis” in the US) was the prime time of shmups and arguably the best ones were released in that era.
Mega Drive boasts an impressive list of shmup games, some brilliant (like Gaiares).
Shmups died pretty much soon after, with last big ones being Radiant Silvergun on Sega Saturn and Raptor: the call of Shadows for DOS.