GD:Cornucopia v0.2: Devotion Overhaul and Mastery Tweaks

Initial thoughts (no gameplay):

Aeon’s Hourglass and Eel - I’m wondering how much dodge and deflect can possibly be stacked now. I don’t believe these stats have diminishing returns, so it could get pretty ridiculous. I already have ~30% in vanilla and I’m not even optimizing for it. With these buffs it’s starting to look like 50%+ may be possible.

Crab - Thank you. I’ve always wanted to pick up Crab but never wanted to use a shield.

Crane - I don’t know that Crane needed a buff on top of its awesome resists. But maybe once you make resists less important, it will retroactively have needed this buff in order to be desirable. Odd that I didn’t see Empty Throne on this list, since it’s basically just another resist constellation.

Hydra - Will these changes make it good enough to surpass Kraken? Currently doubting it, but hopeful.

Spear of the Heavens - I’m surprised that you kept it as an on-hit proc. I guess reworking the skill was too much trouble? My understanding of the general complaints on this skill is that any build that uses Aether is too squishy to be taking hits to begin with.

Spider - That on-hit slow proc did not need a buff. It is already a monster in vanilla.

Ulzuin’s Torch - 3.5 sec -> 45 sec?! I get that you made the proc much better for aoe clear, but aoe clear isn’t really something that needed help in this game. Firey builds already have aoe clear in Fire Strike (Brimstone) and/or Demo spells and/or Arcanist spells. There’s no clear need (that I can see) for a massive aoe clearing spell that does crazy damage once every 45 seconds.

Crab is really nice change, always wanted to use it with other builds.

Evasion boost can be good for squishy build but what about already tanky build?
They just become even more tanky :smiley:

I don’t agree with you for Spear of the Heavens because in my opinion it’s situational.
If you build a Battle Mage (Soldier Arcanist) with a shield it does a really good job.
If you are a ranged Mage than it’s total shit :smiley: Hehe!

While I like the change and the damage boost to Meteor Shower, I think the high cooldown might ruin the fun of using this devotion skill.
I think a shorter cooldown (idk around 10-15 sec) would play better and maybe rebalance the damage proportionally.

Hey guys. I was wondering if you plan to tweak spirit and cunning when it comes to oa?

That’s my point - it’s not situational. If you use Aether damage, you WILL pick up Spear. So the proc is only useful for a portion of Aether users. That is problematic. It’s fine for a top-tier constellation to be best used by a particular build, but it is not okay for there to be no top-tier constellation proc that is useful for an entire damage type.

I’m kind of in the same boat about the Cadence changes. I think you’re trying to do too much with it and I’m not entirely sold on the idea of making it more compatible with WPS procs in general since I didn’t really feel that Cadence is a problem in the core game. Conceptually it feels weird to invest so many points into a skill that hits 1/5 of the time (if it doesn’t miss).

Just started a ranged character this morning and leaving Cadence at 2 points but pumping Fighting Form I’m shotgun blasting everything in the face. The combination of extra projectiles and pass through make it fairly OP for mob clearing and it also works really well for bosses by taking advantage of the shotgun effect. Unless I start stacking attack speed with gear and/or skill investment I really don’t see the motivation, specifically as a ranged Cadence build, for going beyond 2 points in Cadence since I can’t really pick up any other reliable AoE that utilizes weapon damage without just jumping over to something like a Primal Strike build. I don’t know if it’s going to scale but I can’t see why it wouldn’t do alright for most of the game in this configuration.

That may be your outlook but when Blademasters or Warders are taking Shard of Beronath/Savagery over Cadence 100% of the time, something is clearly wrong with the skill, and the obvious correlation is Cadence’s anti-synergy with literally everything.

And let’s look at the ‘Worst Skills of v1.0.0.3’ thread:

Notice a trend here? As it happens, the only skill which we haven’t mechanically redesigned in Xeilua’s list is Phantasmal Blades, because I personally feel there are good ways to make it work in the core game already. But such ways simply don’t exist for Cadence right now. Edit: OK, we didn’t ‘mechanically redesign’ Upheaval either, but we gave it a good buff. More or less to Bloody Pox too, except its buff is on the verge of being mechanically different, depending on your point of view.

For ranged, there are WPS procs to use with this new Cadence, but they’re all item-dependent.

I’m not retuning the # of hits to proc Cadence; I think its finally in a good spot to serve a wider variety of builds.

If the new transmuter is too strong in Ultimate, I will tone it down, but I personally doubt that it is. Cadence’s problems, since its nerf, have been shit-tier AoE clearspeed and complete anti-synergy. For a skill requiring 40 skillpoints of investment (+another 40 points of mastery investment), that’s simply unacceptable.

The Attack Damage Converted to Health is higher than it should be because % Damage Modification applies to the stat…which is dumb. If Crate ever fixes that in the base game (HINT, HINT) it’ll retroactively apply here and the stat will be functioning as intended.

It’s a topic of conversation. Do we plan to? No. But we might.

RE: Devotion stuff (because I’m too lazy to multiquote):

It’s already possible to get absurd dodge chance in the base game:

But doing so completely gimps your character and you can’t dodge AoE’s anyways, so it still kinda sucks. We wanted to make Dodge a means of increasing one’s defensiveness kind of on the side, the same way you might up your DA to get out of Crit Range but not make it impossible to be hit because that investment would be too great. You could do it if you wanted to, but the sacrifice would be staggering.

It seems the present conversation about Spear of the Heavens’s problem is that it is all about most builds being unable to use it because they can’t afford to take a hit. Am I wrong? Given that we’re trying to lessen the WTF-damage of Ultimate, and that we just spread several thousand health through Devotion and Mastery investment, it seems as though we’re already working to solve that problem for SotH…because we are. If SotH is still unusable for the same reason, it just means we need to do more work…maybe introduce some HP regen to some of the squishier masteries somewhere.

I intend skip this patch because of the the skill/devotion respec part.

So, when, approximately, will the next patch arrive, when respecs won’t be required? Should I bitch around killing stuff and waiting, or the next one will take a lot of waiting and I’ll miss parts of the current content for too long?

Help me solve the dilemma.

Ceno and adoomgod you both create a great mod , i like it .

but there is a problem, if you combine Ulzuin’s torch : meteor shower devotion skill with spirit blade or with ultimate rank of mortar trap (in my case 17/16 where u have 2 mortar) the result is meteor shower will proc each this skill summon.

so basically you want this skill proc every 30s but what happen is :

  • summon blade spirit > proc meteor shower > blade spirit cooldown(less than 1 seccond) > summon spirit > proc meteor again.

a nonstop meteor shower skill :rolleyes:

i have a suspicion this will happen on all pet skill each time they summon.

i have bad english, please forgive me if there is grammatical error :eek:

If you skip this patch you’ll still need to respec. We just made it less-expensive to do so in this one. Sorry, but that probably solves your dilemma. :stuck_out_tongue:

but there is a problem, if you combine Ulzuin’s torch : meteor shower devotion skill with spirit blade or with ultimate rank of mortar trap (in my case 17/16 where u have 2 mortar) the result is meteor shower will proc each this skill summon.

so basically you want this skill proc every 30s but what happen is :

  • summon blade spirit > proc meteor shower > blade spirit cooldown(less than 1 seccond) > summon spirit > proc meteor again.

a nonstop meteor shower skill

i have a suspicion this will happen on all pet skill each time they summon.
Yup. That is indeed the way it works. We can look into up’ing the CD or lowering the duration of the skill to compensate, but the fact that you can get multiple procs from multiple summons isn’t going to change…because that’s the way the game works.

welp, if that’s the case . Time to abuse it:p

Okay, looks like you’ve already accounted for this and have determined it’s not game-breaking. I was thinking it was more along the lines of 100% absorption = god mode = boring game, but dodge isn’t absorption.

It seems the present conversation about Spear of the Heavens’s problem is that it is all about most builds being unable to use it because they can’t afford to take a hit. Am I wrong?

You’re not wrong. Maybe I was thinking too much along the lines of vanilla. As I mentioned in my post, those were my untested first thoughts. I suppose a tankier caster could handle a hit or two, and Spear would become way to control enemies trying to hit you in the first place. I wouldn’t hate it as a small aoe stun. maybe 3-5 meters. unless that’s how it functions already? Can’t say I’ve actually ever used it.

Thanks for always responding, even if it’s disagreement. You guys are doing the witch gods’ work.

Known issue: There’s lots more sets that don’t presently have set bonuses. A fix is in the works. Hang tight. :slight_smile:

Fixed. :slight_smile: Links in first post are up-to-date.

having a good laugh when there’s a ton of meteor keep proc on spirit blade :smiley:

even it’s fun, i guess it need another rework.

  • 8 second duration, 23m, 2 projectiles, 0.15 interval cmiiw it create a problem for vision. Where the size of the projectiles was mix between large plus the blast of the meteor make you can’t see where you walk (trap aether/ poison floor) or where the enemies position especially for nemesis (that damn aether nemesis).

  • 30s recharge are not friendly for non pet build, when you need it again hard enemies(nemesis) or to clear second wave of enemies (enemies that can summon another enemies in large group).

from what i learn maybe you can mix it between devastation skill and blizzard devotion skill, you two do great job at blizzard devotion skill where it is not weak or op on my spirit blade and mortar build and not create vision problem (i still can see the enemies and trap floor).

  1. Dodge is a nice option to have. One we’ll keep an eye on, but I don’t see it as a problem yet.

  2. You’re welcome. Let me know if it’s too strong.

  3. Crane, you understand :).

  4. This change was made for long term vision. We will probably tone all two handers up and tone kraken down.

  5. Spear has been discussed. Plus it’s lightning too for warders.

  6. Fuck. I thought about that. Might hotfix it later.

  7. Sigh. I tried to make it an actual meteor shower. Which I did. You say it’s not desirable but you could always put it on a spell with a cooldown you put one point in and proc it selectively. But who am I kidding? I knew it’d be an issue. I could tone down the dmg and the cooldown… but meteors that tickle are lame.

I’ll adjust further.

Just play this version. I haven no idea what you have against respeccing… but you should never have to again after this version so you might as well. At some point you’re going to have to respec into the new version’s stuff so you’re just delaying the inevitable.

More on Meteor:

Meteor shower should feel like a meteor shower. I made it so.
Also the CD scales down to 35, and it does cooldown while it’s going off.
But the pet exploit ruins that, I basically have to make it shorter.
Actually maybe I can make it not be able to be put on pets. !!! OH I HAVE THINGS PLANNED FOR ALL OF YOU!

I get it and I’ll admit that I tend to go right when people go left. I’ll also point out that I despise Beronath and Shard anyway and think they should be completely removed from the game or shouldn’t replicate the weapon damage charge building Savagery mechanism.

What’s your intended design goal/purpose of the a high level Cadence anyway? Boss-killer? At every 5 attacks you’re likely over killing anything other than hard trash. Also at a 5 attack spacing it’s a high point investment after already speccing into some of the other WPS skills which you’ll need to fill in with now anyway. I completely agree that for 40 points its performance should be much much better but relegating it to one attack out of every five doesn’t seem to be the best answer. You’re using it less for more point investment, which seems counter purpose.

Really I sort of half expected you guys simply to just do away with the proc hit count entirely anyway because it is such a PITA to deal with.

Have you tried it tho? It hits like having your father disappointed in you now.
Don’t get me wrong, cadence is something I’ve debated with Ceno about and neither of us are happy with it yet. It’s a work in progress.

And I too want it to be a boss-killer with a dabbling of AoE for melee, but a nice projectile multiplier for ranged. There are a bunch of things we can do here. I REALLY like how he made it feel with ranged. Like a lot a lot. But it just makes the melee component feel terrible, which is why he added Ravage. I too, stare at the stats on it and grimace, but in practice it might not actually be that bad.

He added more targets to melee because… well clear speed efficiency. But I feel like it’s too much. I always thought that cadence was more of a play-style choice to be a bit slower bit hit a lot harder than other builds.

I’ve spent more time than I should brain-storming alternative ways to balance it.

All I’m saying is, give us time and feedback and we will make cadence into something fun and distinct despite it’s once every x hits mechanic.

Hotfix v0.2 D

[Class & Skills]

  • Ring of Venom: Freeze -> Petrify



  • Reverted attack speed/run speed slow retaliation back to 20%.

Ulzuin’s Torch

  • Target Radius reduced to 18. Duration 8 -> 5. Cool down reduced 7 seconds at all ranks. Physical/Fire/Burn damage increased 25%. Reduced size of meteors by a teensy bit. Now can’t be cast on Blade Spirit or Wind Devil to remove cooldown exploit.