wait, srs? that’s what he’s basing the 46% dmg increase on?!?
someone tell him you “can’t”/wont actually 0 seed roll ingame 
jezz frack i hope i’m wrong/the dmg disparity was based on something else, otherwise this is just… monumentally absurd to the ludicrous degree 
Yeah, I responded already with more or less the same message - that the vid should be called the “difference between min and max rolls” and not “effects of GDStash” and without accusation in the description that Top 20 builders cheated 46% (55 initially) damage with GDStash (unless it was properly proven of course)
jezz fn cracker on a cross
why is it people that try to “debunk” or complain about using X feature, then not only not understand the feature, but dont’ understand the g-d dang base interaction of the game itself let alone the interaction between the game and the feature…
This is basically borderline direct disinformation if it’s actually portrayed like that in the video
no fn wonder there is a bunch of misperceptions out there how XYZ works/GDstash, teleports, storage tools, basic items, drop rates, rolls, let alone statistics of averages…
people knee jerking with disinformation or clickbait vids sure as sht doesn’t help it or anything…
what the actual frack
So you can roll min or max values in GD stash? I guess i’m worse at cheating than the guys who accuse us. Makes sense, you gotta think like a criminal to catch one.
Only min rolled.
Max rolls was possible in Titan Quest
yes, 00000000 manually entered in the seed field in GDstash produces items with all stats totally min rolled (even blacksmith bonus if applied), and is beyond 3000% unrealistic, not just in general but even more for “comparison” sake with above avg rolled items.
It’s completely mental to even begin suggest it has any remote relevance and ludicrous to think is has baring on ingame drops, between legit builds or even high rolled items - not just because 0seed wont drop(atleast statistically can’t speak for mechanically),
But even without 0 seed you “on avg” will not only not low roll 14 slots, you wont min roll enough slots; to even get close to make the attempted comparison even slightly valid.
It’s astounding how far out absurd it is to try paint this picture being done there if so/if that’s what Paikis was doing…
So after watching parts of your video and reading your comments here I have a question @Paikis :
What did you try to achieve by making this video?
I’m genuinely curious. Because I have a hard time even making a steel man argument for posting a video belittling someone’s build/builds (with the exception of extreme cheating / misinformation of course). Yes, they are on the high end of relevant stat rolls but so what? Do you honestly think that the “Average Joe”, who or whatever this is, will engange less with the game if their freshly farmed character does not perform as well as in a build guide? And yes, you say in the video that they are good builds and what not but your actions afterwards speak a different language.
For me this looks like you tried to create resonance for your opinion (which is flawed as pointed out by many) by people who don’t know any better, which is sad.
I think this comment on your vid sums it up the best:
Thanks for splitting this off Zantai, it was getting too much for the Top 20 thread.
I didn’t neglect that. I believe I’ve stated several times now that the low rolls are just as impossible as the high ones used in GDStashed builds. I even said in the video that most people would be sitting somewhere around the average point and the difference would be more like 20-25%.
Ignoring Alkamos’ Rings, getting a Korba’s Decapitator with just max rolls on flat cold, % cold and attack speed is 1 in 2544. I’ve been playing for almost 3,000 hours and I have maybe seen 20 of those axes. Let’s say I forgot 3 quarters of the ones that dropped and I’ve actually seen 80. That’s still not even close to getting near to the rolls shown. I also don’t have anywhere near that many Celestial Essences after almost 3k hours. I would have to be very lucky to get one of those items.
Then let’s look at the Chilldread Mantle. You’re looking at 1 in 2,970 chance to get max rolls on just the flat damage, % cold and OA. There are no re-rolls available here, you need to drop that many. There is no way anyone is getting that.
Yeah there’s been a lot of people who haven’t seen the video talking about what I’ve apparently said and people who don’t care posting a lot.
The 46% (I already said the 55% number was erroneous) is the % increase in damage going from 0 seed to the items used in the builds. I used this to say that an average roll would be about 20-25% weaker than the ones shown. That’s it. That was the whole point. Some people seem, to have missed it.
What you say you’re doing is pretty much exactly like just farming and getting a few drops, or rerolling some set items. This is not what’s happening though, that’s exactly what I would expect a normal person to do, and it’s exactly what I do with my characters.
But you’re not going to end up with an entire character full of items where the important rolls are all max like that. Which is what is actually happening with GDStashed builds. When I talk about max roll items, I’m just talking about (for example) a Korba’s Decapitator with max rolls on the flat damage, % damage and attack speed. No one cares about the conversion because the set bonus provides 100%, no one cares about health because even a minimum roll is enough, no one cares about the flat bleed or bleed damage % because it’s a cold build.
wait, srs? that’s what he’s basing the GDStashed builds on?!?
someone tell them you “can’t”/wont actually max roll ingame
Why does everyone act like this is some gotcha? It’s literally what I said I was doing in the intro, it’s just as likely as the items used in the GDStashed builds and no one has an issue with those.
I take your point about the difference in the title vs what I said I was showing.
Are you suggesting that GDStash is not cheating unrealistic items into the game to show something else? Because again, if you are, I have a bridge to sell you.
Yup. And about 23% more than an average roll. That’s it. That’s the whole video.
No one cares about most of those 14 slots. At best you care about 2-4 stats on an item.
On Korba’s Decapitator you have a 1 in 8 chance or rolling max (or min) flat damage, a 1 in 53 chance of rolling max (or min) % cold damage and a 1 in 6 chance of rolling max attack speed. Those are the stats that you care about on that weapon for a cold build. You could maybe add in the frostburn, but I doubt it was considered. The chance of a 0 roll (or max rolls) on those stats is 0.03735%, or 1 in 2544. Yet the item was used in the build shown. Now I’m not going to do the maths for the entire character, so let’s just say that every item is just as likely as that one, and we’re going to ignore the 4 MIs that will be astronomically rarer due to affixes and the 2 Alkamos rings that no one is going to farm 50 sets of to check, we’ve got 13 of those items 1 in 2544 items.
1 in 33,072 and we all know that’s way lower than it actually is.
I was told in another thread (I think it was the best builds in game thread) that the difference between GDStashed builds and normal builds was basically nothing, maybe 5% or something. So I decided to check, mostly for my own curiosity. I honestly expected it to be somewhere around 10-15% because there are so many bonuses from sets or procs that are set values. I did not expect it to be anywhere close to what it was. I made a video to say “hey look what I found”. That’s it.
I didn’t want to spend hours printing items to check for average rolls, so I used 0 rolls to show the total swing possible. I only used the Trickster from the Top 20 list because it was already done. I assumed people would be able to just take 46% and half it for the average vs GDStashed number, but apparently that was expecting too much.
Flat cold and attack speed are enough and they can be close to max, don’t have to be total max.
Twenty is more than anyone sane would GDstash anyways…
Again don’t need total max. Reality is just simpler than you present it to be with your special max case.
I don’t really get what the fuss is all about. You are just plainly wrong. And everyone except you sees it…
If you went on a tirade about GDstashed greens you could win such argument but not with legendaries… But never with min rolls… Bad place to start with whatever type of items…
“which the builds you’re attempting to compare also are not” - you even acknowledge this yourself each time you accept XY item is some degree off from max
so no, it’s not a gotcha on us; but the gotcha very much works on you; because your comparison is beyond unrealistic that it’s 100% invalid and irrelevant
slots = item slots, so 1 in 2544^14 or something - this is the part, even ignoring 0 seed not existing, makes your comparison irrelevant or invalid, because as state; you will not get this or this low that many times
in fact, i would guess you could stash 1000 items, of each 14 slots, and not come any closer to make your comparison valid ingame, that the degree of unrealistic the top20 GDstashed builds are from avg/regular variables.
or to say your comparison is more unrealistic than the actual GDstashed top20
it’s not, that’s the point
because you have 3 stats you care about you’re so much more unlikely to not only max roll all, but even high roll on, even on the 50spawns assumed some used (whcih turned out to be wrong), but more so with less spawn will still be much closer to the avg, than the discrepancy you try to attribute
Because even legit rolled cherrypicked stats have that variable, even if we include Alkamos “on avg” the compounding effect of the build would be far less than the absurd comparison you’re trying to make, or;
yes low rolls will occur, yes even some min rolls will occur, even multiple min rolls or low rolls can occur in the same “build”/player drop legit; but it will never be even remotely close to as far off as your used baseline.
Even if you go 5-10% below avg, it’s still not even close to the effect you attempt to attribute, even on super rares like alkamos or cherrypicked affixed greens.
That’s what makes is so absurd, that even in the worst case scenario vanilla/ingame play, your comparison is so far off it almost goes beyond dishonesty, as is just confoundingly off/far out it makes the framing and portraying insanely irrelevant and invalid because of the base wrongness of it…
even a 10% below avg would have is less than 1/3rd the difference from top20 save rolls(8% on max+5.6% from under rolls 13.6%), vs your comparison and concluded 46%
and that’s before even entertaining the statistically unlikelihood of overall drops being that much low that frequent…
nevermind the completely disregard for how the builds themselves are actually made/not using 1:1000 spaws “immediately blowing a whole in your statistical notion”,
but at a base interaction your attempted comparison blows so far off/out that it doesnt’ even begin to fit normal less than avg rolls vs spawned rolls; because my numbers still hinge on actual max “which they don’t even get” - so best case scenario “which isn’t even possible” you’re still 32% off…
if you can’t see how messed up that is/your approach is and how far out irrelevant your misguided comparison becomes from it… like holy sht man
I wont go into much detail here (others already do and i agree mostly) but if this:
was your intention of posting this, you did a bad job. I agree even that gdstash can set unrealistic standards and is, especially for new players, a tool that will make your expeience playing GD lesser imo. But thats not at all what you did.
So you didn’t want to spend time building an averagely rolled version of the build (that we made) so you just rolled unrealistic min-rolled character that happened to be our top1 build and died with it in SR90 (you still didn’t answer why you were testing it in SR90) while misplaying it (you also didn’t answer to that) and then your, uhm, let’s say, poorly informed fans, just jumped on the bandwagon and started parroting a silly take about how top20 builds are “toprolled” “fantasy builds”.
Don’t you see what’s wrong here? Not only you rigged the tests with that min-rolled character and wrong testing environment but you also used our build in that rigged test to grossly misrepresent it and contribute to spreading this idiotic misinformation that is basically just downplaying our work.
You can still turn it back and just take the video down and apologize, shit happens, you know, that would be a mature thing to do that I am sure it will garner your respect both from this forum members and your youtube followers.
By doing that you also have a chance to make some proper tests by comparing actually averagely rolled builds (I think above averagely rolled would be more realistic) to our saves in the environment those builds were built for - farming routes, like SR 75-76 or buffed Crucible Gladiator 150-170 (btw easy to compare timers in Crucible). And not only that, but you can take several builds, right, so you can avoid having too small of a sample to make a judgment about the whole top20.
i just realized (loaded the actual save) - the top20 save doesnt’ even have those maxed rolled…
in fact it’s not even close to being max rolled on all of those 3 stats,
it has flat max rolled on 1, doesnt’ get % maxed on either, has speed maxed on 1 - funnily on the one that didn’t max flat
so, again, even ignoring that 0 seed doesn’t exist in game/will not drop ingame, you’re attempting to attribute a 1/2500 anomaly “to something that doen’t’ even have the requirement necessary to attribute that 1/2500 occurrence”
and that’s for a single item… - and you’re then going further trying to attribute a similar rarity to the other slots/items, which also doesn’t have that same rarity attribute
how the hell did you not just look at it immediately you opened up the save and went “oh, my rolls a too far apart to make this comparison make sense”
heck, even if we assumed the distribution was even (spoiler it’s not), just on face value, your own base argument of rarity doesn’t work because you’re attributing a rarity that not only doesnt’ work, but isn’t even applicable
wth
it really really doesn’t seem like that… like… i’m not saying the intent was dishonest portrayal/framing, but when looking into it/“comparing things” it comes more off as such, than just a misunderstanding or taking things out of context/without applying more reasonable numbers etc…
i don’t remember the word i’m looking for, not like deliberate malicious intent, but more like “neglect”? to the point it become “unethical” or something… (pretty sure there was a more apt word i was looking for)
I don’t think you’ve actually looked at just how good those items used are. Looking at only the top 3 stats on each item:
Korba’s Decapitator:
18-26 cold damage, build is using 26
110-163% cold damage, build is using 156%
14-20% attack speed, build is using 19%
Just casually better than 99.5% of all possible rolls for those 3 stats.
Korba’s Frenzy:
18-26 cold damage, build has 23
110-163% cold damage, build has 152%
14-20% attack speed, build has 20%
Just casually better than 98.5% of all possible rolls for those 3 stats.
Korba’s Hood:
7-9 cold damage, build has 9
70 to 103% cold damage, build has 102%
3 to 5% physical resist, build has 5%
Just casually better than 99.34% of all possible rolls for those 3 stats
Chilldread Mantle:
9-12 cold damage, build has 12
70-103% cold damage, build has 100%
60-90 OA, build has 90
Just casually better than 99.93% of all possible rolls for those slots.
I’ll stop there because I don’t even know how to begin to calculate just how crazy good and rare those MIs are.
I’m glad you can aknowledge that doing exactly what those builds are doing is “beyond unrealistic” and “100% invalid”. Good to have some agreement.
And for the last time, the difference between the rolls used in the builds and the “average” is 23% for that particular build. The fact that so many of you can’t go from “this is the total swing” to an average difference absolutely boggles my mind.
Then we agree, and you don’t like how I made my video. That’s fine, you don’t have to agree or like it. My point stands.
are you reading this into my reply? jesus man you have bigger problems than GD stash creating unrealistic expectations
The weapon has more stats than three and these rolls are certainly not unobtainable.
The same for the rest. You take an exception, take it out of context and then compare it with nonsense… I am sorry but what you are doing is just not sound.
Exactly. You don’t…
I like how you cherry picked who to reply to, instead of replying to me or to @banana_peel (who by the way presented his GDstash item selection process to you in a comment here), actual people behind top20.
And we do, I mean we did know how and used that knowledge to keep greens as realistic as possible and we wrote about it in the top20 thread itself.
literally doing the very opposite, (and you know it and is being obtuse)
not only do i, i’ve loaded up the save and taken screenshots to show how far off you are on trying to invoke the 1/2450 here - because i actually thought you might be right, but seeing how far off it is just blew my mind with the absurdity you once again try to pull
like holy hell, trying to frame this as actually maxed rolled? when there is 1 stat each on korba “that we care about” that is max? while the others are off - trying to frame that as 1/2500 is applicable here?
i think it’s eking more into the willful “malicious” intent territory instance by instance
but you’re still wrong on that 
- and it’s still not even close
but also
i’m not gonna go into the technicalities, i stopped watching the video when you began presenting stats without the “details” factoring in too
i found the base discrepancy to be plenty off on its own that it at the basic level it’s just too incorrect to use/for you to try this, but the extras just compound it.
This is going to blow your mind. If you take the minimums, and you go half way between those and the maximums, you get the average.
Because I knew the version you made could do SR90, because I did it a few months back when I first downloaded the character and played with it.
I did the same thing with both builds. One survived and cleared the entire set, the other died in the first chunk.
Incidentally, both will clear SR75/76 easily, though that’s not exactly a high bar to clear anymore.
That’s not a silly take, it’s 100% fact. You’ve been buried in GDStashed builds for so long you don’t seem to understand just how good the rolls on those items are. Individually you could get one of those items. No one has the time to get all of them. You even admit this yourself when you say you have to use GDStash to test the builds. You can’t get those builds naturally.
I’m just one man and I can only type so fast. I’m getting to it.
