Grim Dawn Version 1.1.6.0

I’m sorry for my poor English. I wrote in a hurry just now. There may be some inaccuracies.

很抱歉我的英语水平不好,刚才写得比较匆忙,可能有表达不准确的地方。

about retaliation-builds,I can say responsibly that it is now the best performance in almost any field.

关于反击类BD,我可以很负责任的说,它现在几乎在任何领域都是最佳表现。

Fastest test 170ex speed (4 and a half minutes.EX.Up to now, it can still reach the speed of 7 minutes)

最快的试炼170EX速度

Fastest sr75-76 speed (8-9 minutes, almost the fastest)

最快的SR75~76速度

Highest SR level record(100~130)

最高的碎境层数

The fastest single kill speed.(ravager:30s~1min,callagadra:1~2min.)

最快的天神击杀速度,天神掠夺者30秒~1分钟,天神卡拉加德拉1~2分钟。

And it’s so easy that some builds don’t even need consumables.

而且很容易,有些构建甚至不需要消耗品。

To say which aspect of its performance is not good, it should be relatively weak in the face of enemies who can recover quickly.

要说它在哪个方面表现不佳,应该就是面对能够快速恢复的敌人时相对比较乏力。

I think this positioning is very good, passive attack is very strong, active attack is weak.

我觉得这个定位很很好,被动攻击很强,主动攻击较弱。

But as I said earlier, because there are recovery monsters, the output ability of all builds must exceed the recovery ability of monsters, otherwise the system will not be established.

但就像我前面所说的,因为有恢复类怪物的存在,所有的构建的输出能力都必须超过怪物的恢复力才,否则体系不成立。

This will make the counterattack build also have to reach this “pass line”.

这就会使得反击构建也必须达到这个“及格线”。

Based on this point, there is no limitation or poor performance in some aspects of counterattack construction. In fact, I personally don’t think counter attack construction should be able to stand on its own, because it’s not an action game.

基于这一点,反击构建就不存在局限或某方面表现不佳。事实上我个人认为反击构建是不应该能够独挡一面的,因为这不是动作游戏。

Although there are elements of action, the “counterattack” can not be achieved through the player’s operation, it is just a set of data feedback.

虽然有动作元素的成分,但“反击”这一项并不能通过玩家的操作实现,它只是一组数据反馈。

Therefore, players can’t solve the limitation of encountering enemies who can’t counterattack through operation.

因此玩家不能通过操作来解决遇上无法反击的敌人时的局限。

So,there’s [Retaliation damage added Attack].

所以,出现了附加反击到主动攻击。

Because the damage level of the build must exceed the monster’s recovery ability, rdadd has no advantage but will not be limited to the long-range and recovery enemies.

又因为构建的输出能力必须超过怪物的恢复能力,所以反击附加只是针对远程和恢复型敌人没有优势,但不会被局限。

Or it won’t let players encounter in the main occasions.

或者不会让玩家在主要场合遭遇。

Like crucible and SR and all the dungeons.

比如坩埚和SR以及所有地牢的最后一战。

Unless Kuba becomes a mage.This will hit the soft spot of the counterattack build.

除非库巴变成法师。这会就击中反击构建的软肋。

Then there is the real meaning of “worse performance in some aspects”.

然后才是真正意义上的“在某些方面表现比较糟糕”了。

But this will lead to the contradiction between “player’s output and monster’s recovery ability” just mentioned, and it will be difficult to build counterattack.

但这会导致刚才提到的“玩家输出和怪物恢复能力”的矛盾,很难建立反击。

Or the counterattack build also has capabal active attack ability, which leads to its over power. this is the current situation.

或者反击构建也有足够的主动输出能力,而导致其OP.这就是现在的局面。

Therefore,i suggest weakening the active attack ability of a counterattack build while reducing the recovery ability of monsters.

所以,我才建议下调怪物的恢复能力并同时下调反击构建的主动输出能力。

therefore,i suggest weakening the active attack ability of counterattack builds while reducing the recovery ability of monsters.

这可以使反攻建筑在有很强的防御能力的同时,也不能有足够的输出能力。

To further reduce its speed in the face of “non close combat enemy” has some limitations, but it will not make the construction impossible.

在“非近战敌人”面前进一步降低其速度产生一定的局限性,但不会使建设成为不可能。

Balance at niche level

生态位平衡。

These are just one of the solutions I offer.

这些,只是我提供的其中一个解决方案。

The reason why 1.0.0.9 is mentioned is that CC is the second balance solution.

之所以提到1.0.0.9,是因为CC是第二个平衡解决方案。

Since this release, all major monsters have become unaffected by the abnormal state, which indirectly leads to all builds having to pursue close combat defense.

因为从这个版本开始,所有的主要怪物都变得无法被异常状态所影响,而间接导致所有的构建都不得不追求近战防御。

From then on, we began to build around this environment.

从此开始,我们就开始围绕着这种环境来进行构建了。

I remember seeing an impressive saying on the Forum: “all monsters rush like trucks.”

我记得曾经在论坛上看到过一句令人印象深刻的话:“所有的怪物都像卡车一样冲过来”

from this time on, tanks become the ultimate choice for players to pursue intensity.

也是从这时候开始,坦克成了玩家追求强度的最终选择。

Shield GD,Physique GD,Soldier GD… And so on began to appear.

盾牌黎明,体格黎明,战士黎明等开始出现。.

Mages and ranged classes with insufficient defense are in trouble, or they can build themselves into a melee and put guns in their enemies’ mouths.

防御能力不足的法师和远程职业陷入困境,或者他们也把自己打造成一个近战,把枪塞进敌人的嘴里。

In the end, most of the constructions tend to be homogeneous.

最终各大部分建趁向同质化。

That’s why I have complaints about 1.0.7.0.

这就是为什么我对1.0.7.0版本报有怨念。

Because in this environment, arcane mages still use CDR method and players’ operation ability to achieve good comprehensive performance.

因为在这种环境下,奥术法师还是用CDR的办法加上玩家的操作能力达到良好的综合表现。

In the trend of melee construction, through the operation of technology to build viability, unique and very in line with the traditional sense of the wizard style.

在混战构建的潮流下,通过操作技术来建立生存能力,别具一格且非常符合传统意义上的法师风格。

Form a tripartite situation of close combat, mage and summon.

形成近战、法师、召唤的三足鼎立的局面。

1.0.6.1 is also by far the most balanced version.A hundred flowers bloom, each with its own advantages.

1.0.6.1也是迄今为止最平衡的版本,百花齐放,各有所长。

But it’s also exclusive to arcane art. It’s still a way to survive in close combat. It just uses “mirror” to realize the defense of “dodge and roll” in similar action games.

但这也是专属于奥术的,它仍然是一种应对近战的生存办法,只是通过“镜子”来实现类似动作游戏当中“闪避、翻滚”来进行防御。

Moreover, the basic cooling time of the “mirror” must be 18 seconds, and the CDR can be more than 45% to achieve this kind of construction ideally, such as Druid, sorcerer, Warlock. If the build you want to build is not a melee, you need such conditions to keep the player in the middle of the enemy for a certain range.

而且必须是“镜子”的基础冷却时间18秒的前提下,cdr在45%以上才能比较理想地实现这种构建,比如Druid、Sorcerer、Warlock。如果想要打造的构建不是一个近战的话,需要这样的条件才能让玩家保持一定范围周旋在敌人中间。

It will take a few seconds to start because you need to wait for the resistance reduction effect of constellation skills and specialization skills to take effect.

因为要等待星座技能和专精技能的降低抗性效果产生作用,这大约需要几秒的启动时间。

A “mirror” for three seconds is just enough to activate these effects of reducing resistance. At that time, if the mage’s defense ability had not been protected by the next “mirror”, it would have to flee, which would fall into a vicious circle of wasting attack time.

一个“镜子”3秒钟差不多刚好够启动这些降低抗性的效果,以当时法师的防御能力如果没有下一个“镜子”保护就不得不逃离,这就会陷入浪费攻击时机的恶性循环当中。

That is to say, since the enemy is not affected by CC, not only the “mirror” school, except for the “summon” stream, all “remote” constructions must have at least a positive defense ability to withstand damage for a certain period of time before they can enter into an effective attack.

也就是说,由于敌人无法控制,不止是“镜子”流派,除“召唤”流以外所有“远程”构建都必须至少要有正面承受一定时间伤害的防御能力才能进入有效攻击。

This is a good way to build a remote build that can’t stack defense properties at that time.

这是在当时无法堆叠防御属性的远程构建的一个比较好的方法。

I shared it to the forum. In fact, I also released many other melee bullids for security reasons, but it was killed by 1.0.7.0 in a few days.

我把它分享到了论坛。事实上为了安全起见,我还同时发布了很多其它近战bulids,但数天后它还是迅速的被1.0.7.0杀死了。

That’s what I really don’t understand. It’s not over power, at least not strong enough to destroy the game. Even the best Spellbinder is just at the level of melee build.

我真的不明白。它不太强大,至少不足以摧毁游戏。即使是当中表现最好的spellbinder也仅仅是刚好达到近战构建的水平。

But it’s just a bad memory.

In the later versions of Gd, especially after the launch of the second DLC, players have improved their recovery ability, anti control ability (abnormal state resistance), and CDR attributes have also returned, and the possibility of remote construction is increasing. This is indeed a positive development.

但这只是一个糟糕的记忆。

在Gd的后期版本中,特别是第二代DLC推出后,玩家的恢复能力、抗控制能力(异常状态电阻)都有所提高,CDR属性也有所回归,远程构建的可能性也在增加。这确实是一个积极的发展。

It also shows that GD system is on the way to stability. So the second method is very difficult.

这也表明GD系统正在走向稳定。所以第二种方法非常困难。

[Crowd Control] bulids has made some progress, I believe you have made efforts in this area, but it has not become one of the mainstream survival options.

控制型BD的确有所进展,我也相信您这方面的努力,但它没有成为主流生存选择之一。

If players can survive by controlling the enemy, or by any other means, then close combat defense is no longer the only choice, so retaliation-builds can be built in a very “hard” at the same time with a certain degree of active attack ability, because close combat defense is not something everyone depends on.

如果玩家可以通过控制敌人,或者什么其它方法来生存,那么近战防御就不再是唯一的选择,那么反击构建在非常“坚硬”的同时可以具备一定的主动攻击能力,因为近战防御这一点不是所有人都依赖的了。

Those with poor defense ability can slow down or interrupt the enemy’s actions to a certain extent, improve their viability, and thus achieve a new ecological balance.

防御能力差的建设可以在一定程度上减缓或中断敌人的行动,提高生存能力,从而达到新的生态平衡。

This needs to make “non melee defense” a mainstream survival method. I think it will make a lot of changes to the game, and even reset the balance of the whole system, which is difficult to achieve and risky

这需要“非近战防御”成为主流生存方式之一。我认为这会对游戏产生很多变化,甚至会重置整个系统的平衡,这是很难实现的,也是有风险的。

So I think the first method is more feasible.

所以我想第一种方法比较可行。

Of course, if you agree with me.

当然,如果您同意我的话。

If you don’t think this is over power, I personally support it.

如果您不认为这是力量过大,我个人也是支持的。

As I said before, if you want to keep the richness of the build, you will inevitably have a very strong build.

正如我之前所说,如果要保持构建的丰富性,就必然会产生非常强大的构建。

I’m glad you have a tolerant attitude towards it.

我很高兴您对此有宽容的态度。

But please also be tolerant of most other regular builds.

但也请您对其它大多数常规构建保持这种宽容。

According to my personal historical memory of Gd, from 1.0.0.9 to 1.1.5.2, there is only one building that may destroy the game, Da builds.

You fixed it very promptly.

根据我对Gd的个人历史记忆,从1.0.0.9到1.1.5.2,只有一座建筑可能会破坏游戏,DA builds。

您非常及时地修复了它。

There is no need to weaken in many other places, just to make players feel loss aversion.

其它很多地方的削弱是真的没有必要,只是让玩家产生损失厌恶感。

At present, I think only rateliation-builds may need to be modified.

目前来看,我认为只有反击构建是必要修改的。

For example, this nerf to Dwanguard.I want to say, well done, Even though I have this build.

But there are more…wordlord.wi…There are too many players using this builds, I don’t want to be a bad guy.

About multiple triggers & Devotion.

关于星座和多重触发。

I understand your modification at that time.

我理解您当时对此的修改。

Thermite Mine & Ulzuin’s Torch,right?

铝热地雷和火炬,对吗。

The 6-touch does have too much power, but it’s not out of control.

6重触发的确有些力量过大,但它并非不可调节。

You can reduce the number of TM’s, as well as the trigger probability, to achieve balance.

你可以减少D的数量,以及触发概率,以达到平衡。

If I remember correctly, the first change was to disable TM from binding Torch.

没记错的话,第一次修改是禁止火炬绑定地镭。

What I didn’t expect was that you directly modified the cooling time setting and deleted the multi trigger type of build.

我没想到的是,您直接修改了冷却时间设置,删除了多触发器类型的构建。

Multiple triggering is one of the most advanced characteristics of GD at that time.

多重触发是当时GD最先进的特性之一。

Even today, four years later, it’s one of its most attractive elements, and the first reason to keep me in the game.

哪怕放到4年后的今天,也是它最有魅力的其中一个要素,也是把我留在这个游戏的第一个原因。

This is the feature that best reflects the game depth of GD. It’s a pity.

这是最能反映GD游戏深度的特性,太可惜了。

This is my first long time AFK.

这是我第一次长时间AFK.

In addition, I think this feature can be preserved under the premise of maintaining the balance of the game.

另外,我认为这个特性也是可以在保持游戏平衡的前提之下保留下来的。

We only need to make some differences between the devotions with attack skills and those without attack skills.

只需要在有攻击技能的星座和无攻击技能的星座之间做一些差异化。

like [Fiend] and [Wretch],The former has attack skills, the latter does not.

比如魔王和不幸者,前者有攻击技能,后者没有。

At this time, just reduce the damage bonus of the former and increase the damage bonus and basic damage bonus of the latter.

此时,只需降低前者的伤害加成,增加后者的伤害加成和基本伤害加成即可。

Because the damage calculation method of GD is linear and has the effect of increasing marginal revenue.

因为GD的伤害计算方式是线性的,有边际收益递增效应。

If you want to build your own skills, you will tend to choose the latter. If you want to use the multiple triggers of the summons, you will lose part of the damage bonus because you choose the constellation with attack skills.

那么想要以打造自身技能为主的构建它会倾向于选择后者,而想要利用召唤物多重触发的构建,会因为选择了有攻击技能的星座而失去部分伤害加成。

Because of the increasing marginal revenue, this part of the damage bonus is enough to assume the role of “balance”.

因为边际收益递增,这一部分伤害加成足矣承担“平衡”的作用。

If the balance is not enough, it can be further balanced at the equipment level.

如果不够平衡,还可以在装备层面进一步平衡。

after 1.0.1.0, there is only one multiple trigger left, [Fiend]. And it didn’t show too much power.

在1.0.1.0之后,只剩下一个多重触发器了,[恶魔]。也没有表现出太大的力量。

I’ve released several builds around 1.0.4.0 in the forum. [wind devil] And [fiend], this combination is very interesting, and it doesn’t show too much power. I don’t understand why I killed it.

Until now, many constellations are about to lose their ability to attack, but each version is still weakening, which is really strange.

直至现在,很多星座的技能已经快要失去攻击作用了,但每一个版本还是都在削弱,这真的有些奇怪。

Like [fiend],[Tsunami],[bull],[Falcon]…

比如魔王、海啸、公牛、鹰…

If you calculate carefully, you will find that in many cases it is not cost-effective to use them. First of all, the reason for the marginal benefit mentioned above is that if possible, if you can give up the skill with constellations and get more damage bonus, it is usually worth it.

如果你仔细计算,你会发现在很多情况下使用它们是不划算的。首先,上面提到的边际效益的原因是,如果可能的话,如果你可以放弃星座技能并获得更多的伤害加成,通常是值得的。

Because more damage increases the damage of your main skill, and as a result, more damage will be generated to absorb more life, if your main skill is weapon skill.

因为更多的伤害加成会增加你的主要技能的伤害,因此,如果你的主要技能是武器技能,会产生更多的伤害来吸收更多的生命。

Generally, only some high CDR builds, or those that can’t form the main attack capability by themselves, can be cost-effective.

通常只有一些高CDR的构建,或者自身无法形成主要攻击能力的构建使用它们才是合算的。

Or, if possible, we’d rather choose some “functional” constellations.

或者,在可能的情况下,我们宁愿选择一些“功能性”的星座。

This is because of the second reason, the number of mountable skills is limited.

这是因为第二个原因,可挂载技能数量有限。

The average number of active skills in general construction is about 4, and about 2 can provide stable trigger. There will be some differences according to the characteristics of the build, but the overall number will not be too much difference.

一般的构建的主动性技能数量平均是4个左右,能提供稳定触发的是2个左右。根据构建的特性会有些差异,但总体是这个数量,不会差太多。

Because each skill has its starting and ending actions, the frequency of keys should not be too high, otherwise it will play a negative role in the actual operation.

因为每种技能都有其起止动作,所以按键的频率不应该太高,否则会在实际操作中起到负面作用。

Why doesn’t trozan have a good build before it supports Occultist, when it’s still focused on Druid.

为什么Trozan套装在开始支持神秘以前,一直都没有优秀的BD呢。

Because its cooldown is very short, and Druid has more necessary active skills.Wind devil,Wendigo Totem,Nullification,mabe stormtotem…Plus a trozan that cools for just over a second, it’s almost a melee build.

因为德鲁伊的必要的主动技能较多,风魔、治疗图腾、净化、可能还有风暴图腾,再加上一个1秒多冷却的特洛赞,它几乎成了一个近战BD.

Because of a large number of key operations, it has not much space to focus on other matters, and the defense of Druids wearing trozan is too low, it is difficult to become a close combat.因为大量的按键操作使它已经没有太多的空间专注于其它事项,而德鲁伊穿Trozan的情况下防御力太低,很难成为一个近战。

That’s why Trozan Druid hasn’t been a great build for years

这就是Trozan Druid几年来都无法成为优秀构建的原因.

It is true that some of the builds can be used, but they are not perfect, especially in terms of viability and maturity.

的确的一些构建可使用,但并不完善,尤其是在生存能力上和成熟的构建有相当差距。

There are also some constructions that clearly have a lot of support, no matter in constellation level, equipment level and skill level, but the main reason why they are not popular is that there are too many buttons.It is prone to fatigue and error during operation.

还有一些构建明明有很多支持,无论是星座层面、装备层面、技能层面都给予了极大的支持,但还是没有广受欢迎的一大原因就是因为按键量太大。操作时容易疲劳且容易出错。

So after trozan starts to support Occultist, Warlock can become a close combat. Close combat reduces the movement. It can focus on continuous application of attack skills and give full play to Trozan’s sky shard’s maximum attack ability.

所以在特洛赞开始支持神秘主义者后,术士可以成为近战。近战减少移动。专注于攻击技能的持续运用,充分发挥特洛赞的天碎片最大的攻击能力。

All in all, there is a certain limit to the number of active keys in the build.We don’t have many stable triggers to mount.

总而言之,BD有一定的主动按键数量限制。我们没有太多的触发可以挂载。

In order to reduce monster resistance, two triggers are needed. Generally, only one stable trigger is available.

在降低怪物抗性这一方面就需要两个触发器,通常来说就只剩下一个稳定的触发器可用了。

If possible, I will choose advanced constellations, some functional constellations, or more damage bonuses to support my main attack skills.

如果条件允许,我一定会选择高级星座,或者一些功能星座,或者选择更多的伤害加成支持我的主要攻击技能。

That’s why [fiend] was used more frequently before 1.0.7.0, not because it was too powerful, but because it was an aggressive value in all the constellations.

这就是为什么在1.0.7.0版本之前,[Fiend]的使用率比较高的原因,不是因为它过于强大,只是因为它是所有的小星座中它是一个有攻击作用的价值的。

Including some advanced constellations, if you continue to weaken them, players will start to seek damage bonus instead of skills on the constellations.

包括一些高级星座,继续削弱它们的话,玩家就会开始寻求伤害加成而不是星座上的技能了。

For a lot of time, I don’t understand why every update has a lot of seemingly unimportant fixes. Until version 1.0.4.0malmouth, when I came to the forum to share and build, I felt some undercurrent surging.

在很多一段时间里,我不明白为什么每一次更新都会有许多的看上去并不重要的修复。直到1.0.4.0Malmouith版本,来到论坛分享构建,我感到了一些暗流涌动。

It seems that some people understand why there will always be some fix for the sake of “fix”. It’s human nature.

似乎有些明白为什么总会出现一些为了“修复”而产生的修复了,人之常情吧。

From 2016 to today, watch grimdawn mature step by step. I sincerely hope it gets better and better.

从2016年到今天,看着GrimDawn一步步走向成熟。由衷的希望它越来越好。

I hope it doesn’t abandon its innate charm.

我希望它不要放弃与生俱来的魅力。

Crowd Control

Multiple triggering

Equipment specific effects

These are the soul of the game and the embodiment of the depth of the game.Don’t fold off the

这些才是游戏中的灵魂,是游戏深度的体现。

It is a real “magic” that can give play to the wisdom of players to produce chemical reactions.

是可以发挥玩家的智慧产生化学反应的真正的“魔法”。

No matter how many rigid things are, there is no lasting vitality.

按部就班的东西再多也是没有持续的生命力的。

Don’t fold off the whole wing because of a few feathers.

不要因为几支羽毛出了问题而折掉整个翅膀。

I understand the trade-off for some reason.

我理解出于某中原因所作出的取舍。

I’m not aiming at this update, but I’m determined to spend some time expressing my suggestions.

我不是针对这一次的更新内容,只是下定了决心花些时间表达建议。

More than once, I have the urge to go to the forum and express my opinions. It may take half an hour to organize 100 Chinese characters.

不止一次,我有去论坛发表意见的冲动。整理100个汉字可能需要半个小时。

hope I can express them accurately.

但愿表达准确了。

5 Likes

If it’s not brought to our attention, then we can’t investigate it and it may as well not exist.

If you care about the overall balance of the game, then share outliers with us. Otherwise I’m not sure what to tell you.

That was never intended behavior and initially we were not sure there was an easy solution, so we blacklisted some skills. After it was fixed, those skills were no longer blacklisted.

We have no interest in killing playstyles, but when something is a clear exploit of game mechanics, we have to address it. Similarly to how players used gear swapping to snapshot pets at higher skill ranks. That was not clever use of game mechanics, it was an exploit that resulted in very extreme results. So we prevented that behavior in an update once it became too mainstream.

I will reiterate what I said last time: if you want a say in the game’s balance, then you need to post feedback. Silence and hoarding builds in secret is not going to do you or the game any favors. We are here to work with the community for the longevity of the game we gather here to discuss.

11 Likes

I was curious about this as well so I went there.

Spoiler warning!

It’s a relatively small area with one big building at the end, looks like a meeting hall or a temple for the cult of Chthon. At the very back of the building is a small room with a monolith that says “escape to the surface” but it does nothing. The size of the hall makes it perfect for a boss battle, so who knows, we might get a 6th dungeon in 1.1.7.0 :grin: It’s obviously work in progress, there are no enemies at all but I found a few loot chests and crates, and even a secret area with a chest :slight_smile:

I got there via GrimInternals. If you wanna see it for yourself put this line in your GrimInternals_TeleportList.txt
WIP area, -550.41, 8.11, -1450.78,

1 Like

As I have said before, in the current environment, because monsters have the ability to recover, anti construction will definitely have the ability to attack actively.
It’s not about which Retaliation-build, but the current environment and mechanism determine its final direction.
For example, this:https://www.grimtools.com/calc/L2J4da7Z
Before 1.1.5.2, its score was:
callgadra:2:10~2:30min
SR:9~12min.
crucible:8~9min.
After version 1.1.6.0:
callgadra:2:40~3:100:
SR:10~14.
crucible:9~10.

This is the performance after it has been weakened.
Although the attack ability is reduced, the whole structure is invincible.
Continue to reduce damage. It may not be able to kill healing monsters.
Reducing its defense capability may affect other builds.
这是它已经被削弱后的表现。
虽然输出能力被降低,但整体BD还是基本无敌的。
继续降低它的输出可能会导致它无法杀死治疗型敌人。
而削弱它的防御能力可能会波及到其它BD.

This is a medium level build in the mainstream counterattack build.
Other counterattack builds like warlord will have similar data if you simulate it once according to your design.
这是主流反击构建中的中等水平构建。
其它反击构建比如Warlord按照你们对它的设计模拟一遍就会有相似的数据。

For such a counterattack build, I think it is acceptable. But the real impact is that most players, especially new players, choose retaliation builds. The reason for this may not only be because of the strength of the build, but also because other regular builds are often weakened, and it is estimated that more than half of the builds are affected.
对于这样的反击构建,我认为在可接受范围。但现实影响是绝大多玩家,尤其是新玩家都选择了反击构建。这里的原因可能不止是因为构建的强大,也因为其它常规构建经常被削弱,估计有一半以上的构建影响到。
Have you ever thought that frequent weakening of the build will reduce the enthusiasm of players to come to the forum to feedback the build.
您有没有想过频繁的削弱构建会减少了玩家来到论坛反馈构建的热情。

1 Like

Thank you for the patch, I am enjoying the new storm totems. And no stuffing around with partial components at all now is welcome, but I do believe you have to reduce their drop rate, way too many components dropping.
Also for me, the loot filter still says ‘only show double rare’ although it appears to just be typo and working as intended ie always shows

1 Like

Long(ish?)-time lurker, first time poster here. I’m really thrilled to see the devs continue to pour so much time, thought, and effort into an already stellar game!

On a different note, I did want to jump in for a second on this ongoing Blade Spirit conversation, share my 2 cents, and maybe get some perspective from others with a bit more build knowledge than me.

The way I see it, there are two pretty good reasons one might be disappointed about the Conduit of Night Whispers BS prefix change:

  1. The change replaces a prefix broadly compatible with pretty much any Nightblade (Blade Spirit is a core skill, even if only for devotion procs) with a prefix that demands a dedicated gear set to support an unorthodox (for Nightblade) damage type. Pierce and Cold* Nightblades in particular now have some pretty uninspiring prefix options if they’re otherwise compelled by the defensive and +1 to Nightblade elements of the Conduit. (*I understand that the old Conduit may already be a non-Crucible meta pick for Cold Nightblade, but my point is that we started with a generic utility option and now we’re in a situation where the choice of prefix is less about utility and more about trying to dodge outright antagonistic conversions.)

  2. For some like myself, the loss of the old prefix (new prefix aside) reads as a qualitative change rather than just a quantitative change. What do I mean by this? Well coldly speaking, +1 summon limit is roughly a (N+1)/N multiplier on potential summon damage where N is the previous number of summons. (Of course with devotion procs, it’s a little more complicated than that because of interplay with devotion cooldown, but that’s not the point.) I think, though, that having an extra summon onscreen is also both a small change in gameplay flavor for a casual(ish) player like myself and, potentially, an opportunity for a small shift in gameplay style since the above multiplier and extra hitboxes can be kind of a big deal.

That being said, I don’t pretend to have a good grasp on the calculus of balance here (and similarly, I don’t mean to suggest that the reasons for “disappointment” I described above are necessarily an unreasonable cost for achieving that balance). My question in that regard would be whether +1 summon on minimally invested BS with devotion proccing is fundamentally unbalanced or if the important problem here is the +1 summon in tandem with fully invested BS Pierce Nightblade that @Norzan pointed out. If it’s the latter, isn’t that a bigger indictment of high-investment (i.e. fully scaled) Blade Spirit than it is of the +1 summon Conduit prefix? If It’s the former, I’d be delighted to get a brief picture of the particulars of why that is.

+1 blade spirit removal was surprising. It seemed like a perfect “flavor that is viable”. However it was indeed a little too strong for pierce and cold.

How about a compromise to keep everyone happy?

Smth like:

  • +1 summon to blade spirits
  • 25-30% cold damage converted to fire to blade spirits
  • 25-30% pierce damage converted to fire to blade spirits
  • +60 fire dmg to blade spirits

The outcome is the following:

  • For cold builds: significant nerf to relevant damage. For a dedicated build (Chillwhisper): even stronger net nerf.
  • For pierce builds: significant nerf to relevant damage because single element conversion takes priority (if i’m not mistaken) and prevents ele->pierce conversion abuse.
  • For fire builds: a powerful supplementary AoE damage vital to a mastery with zero fire support.

I have no stake in this because i don’t use this conduit. But lots of people like pets and seeing one of them go must be heartbreaking. :smiley:

Since we’re still talking about conduits, I just wanna say that Mortar conduit problem was ignored. I tested it and did the math. The +4s uptime mod is not needed under any possible circumstance.

1 Like

I think that type of compromise would just make everyone unhappy. All that’s needed is to add the +1 BS summon limit back, then replace one of the other prefixes with the new cold/pierce > fire BS, like the -2 sec cd Blade Barrier prefix which isn’t nearly as useful or build-defining.

2 Likes

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t skill modifier conversions come before global conversions? If so, you could reconvert fire to another damage type via global elemental conversion (though you’d need 100% conversion to reclaim it all). That being said, I was also toying around of the idea of a BS damage nerf on the +1 summon prefix, so I’m intrigued to see a cool way of folding in the new fire prefix.

I’d prefer that too but as you see some people use Blade Barrier conduit and it must be an important addition to NB retal builds. Hence it’s removal is not an option.

Not possible. Once converted, dmg portion cannot be converted again.

Right, duh. Thanks. Running on empty here. (Also, that I’d forget tells you a bit about how much I know vs how much I think-- loves to fiddle/theorycraft in a superficial way but forgets important details.)

It also occurred to me that cold to fire maybe should be tuned a little differently than cold to pierce since cold has some broader elemental support that means fire isn’t a total waste and the flat fire and even the pierce to fire are positives (the latter provided pierce to cold isn’t encroached upon). Probably not very important in the treatment of high investment BS Cold Nightblade as long as the conversion is high enough to deter, but maybe there’s a sweet spot, particularly with the right amount of flat fire where low investment BS Cold Nightblade can come out feeling pretty content, net that +1 summon, and build in an interesting way if it happens to lean a little extra into generic elemental/fire+cold support.

Im not sure why you nerfed belgo strikes on belgo set. Pierce blademaster is a glass cannon and relies on high single target dps to survive. Sure it was possible to stack over 190k sheet dps with a bunch of amazingly well rolled double rares. Did you look at fluff’s sheet dps of 240k and think… gee maybe we need to nerf that? The guy had a perfect setup of M1’s and screenshotted when all procs and buffs were going. I still feel like builds are getting nerfed from their performance by top tier players in crucible with perfected builds and playstyles and lucky runs.

I can barely even get past SR 60 most the time on my blademaster without using some cheesy devo spec and tinker belt, hard nerfing my dps and yet still getting 1 shotted sometimes.

6 Likes

Can someone explain me, please, why would Cadence has Fire danage in first place?

Noted. Next patch - only nerfs!

Not cadence, Flame touched if you go commando, or Bursting round if tactician

1 Like

haha no. Finally the campaign has something going for it, because if you craft you need components, and the campaign is where you can get them fastest. Besides we cant use the normal sr now to gain the same level of loot as before (and we still need components for sr waystones) and while monster totems are a good buff for mc/targeted mi / “nemesis” farming (normal sr is still better than mc for sheer volume of nemesis MIs put out if you just want to roll them), campaign pre-patch d dnt have much of an identity. needs an identity aside from being a bad idea to linger in. Monsters are scaled to 100 for the very reason to accomodate people who want to farm one early area or an act 2 area (cough wasp hives) instead of act 4-5-6-7.

Should not be possible. Cadence mod only apply to cadence hit (every third or second hit), and that cadence hit is not doing any WPS.

That mod should only apply to whatever flat fire damage you have.

2 Likes

Pls Zantai (or anyone).

Just hit Ctrl+F twice (tap the F twice quickly) to open browser search and then search Lost Souls.

Edit: tho now that I look it doesn’t list the items it was moved to it seems. At least not in an obvious way.

1 Like