I also absolutely agree with this.
These changes sound positive to me. I think people are interpreting the message too much as “yellows will be the way to go”, rather than “yellows might be the way to go in some situations”. I certainly don’t mind equipping a few yellows even on my end-game characters, and having to decide between good yellows and average greens/blues along the way makes the whole item hunt all the more interesting. It didn’t take too long after reaching the Warden with my first three toons until I started just skipping all yellow items alltogether.
The only potential negative side I see here is what i.n.s.a.n.e mentioned about the trade-off between item stats and art, but as long as there are at least some statwise superior legendaries for end game chars that give them the badass look, I’m happy.
Well it’s still up for the player to decide which gear to equip. The update gives the players better choices, more ways to experiment. You can keep on using the blues and greens with many properties and skills or you can give a yellow item a second look because it has a very good boost to a certain stat or resist. I want these updates ASAP!
I understood it that way. Zantai also clarifies the point on page one of the thread:
This is extremely good news. I think some people are getting confused by the concept that yellows will not be uniformly trash. The idea is that they will, OCCASIONALLY, be worth equipping. This does NOT mean that they will be the ideal, or that late game you will be better off wearing yellows than uniques/legendaries/crafted gear or what have you. Of course, there may be a couple of niche builds where their best rolls are particular high level yellow types - but that’s actually good! If you think of what is dropping, you would want the ideal situation to be where yellow items very occasionally provide an upgrade (so it is a rare yellow, teehee, that is worth equipping), rares to often provide an upgrade and uniques to virtually always be the best in slot for somebody for at least a while. This relates back to the frequency with which they drop. The other reason you want yellows to be decent is that it minimises the chance that shit drop luck will make your character arbitrarily crap because you failed to roll many good greens at certain points, as greens are rarer drops.
I’m all for this. Ultimately anything that expands the choice landscape and reduces trash loot is a good thing.
Just another clarification: we do not foresee players at end-game to need to rely on yellow items.
We expect most players at 50 will be looking for legendaries and double-rares. We are simply not ruling out yellows due to their inherently high stat rolls.
This. it was a little concern in TQ with self drop characters when the loot was bad. i think the division of greens into differents tiers is a good thing, as well as some more useful yellows. i personally don’t see the necessity to nerf unique however, as they aren’t so overpowered now imho.
another reason to wait for B12 in any case…
Good to hear! I’d love to see the difference soon.
Sounds good to me, otherwise yellow ones will mostly be vendor trash.
Well, anyone who read the “godlike items” thread, already knows that I approve of this 
So, to all who didn’t read the “godlike items” thread: I approve of this 
i like the buff to yellow affixes but im not too sure about the unique nerf though…
Especcially on the weapons - while armor pieces often have interesting stats to leave them on long enough, unqiue weapons already have lots of stats that are rather stats you see on an armor piece; its always nice to have some health, physique etc coming from your weapon, but it seems to take away from the dmg stats you would want on a weapon.
Ofcourse I dont know all uniques but looking on how you nerf the witchstalker for instance (which isnt that powerfull IMO) im worried about the longitivity of some uniques, considering how rare they are.
This is the type of change where I often feel like we’d be better off just releasing it instead of talking about it before hand so that people can learn about it by seeing it in effect rather than hearing a description and making worst-case assumptions. I think its fine for people to react with some measured concern but some of the reactions seem a little over the top considering no one but us (assuming we even know) really knows how this is going to play out over the course of the game. Some of the assumptions though are not in line with our expectations. We’re mainly talking about the early game / normal difficulty here where I think yellows certainly should remain viable as the occasional replacement for a lot, at least most of the way through. Yellows may also come into play at higher levels as the base stats on unique or green items you’ve been wearing for several levels become too low and where you haven’t found another unique or rare to fill the slot yet.
I think people are currently looking at the level 25 cap in alpha like its the end-game and it certainly shouldn’t be. Sure, when you get to the actual end-game, you should be farming for double rares and uniques. I don’t think that because the current balance is “ok” that we shouldn’t try to see if we can make it better and, really, I think it is only ok because the level cap is 25. I don’t think it is the ideal pacing for the entire game.
If these changes end up being for the worst, once people have taken time to adjust and see how they play out over the course of the larger game, we’ll readjust. Although, I think once people give it a shot and see what it is really like, most will welcome it. If I’m wrong, then we’ll revisit it.
There’s some good wisdom there. People tend to be very emotionally invested against these kinds of changes.
I can only agree with these changes. Right now yellows are essentially trash, which defeats the purpose of having the differentiation between yellows and whites to begin with. I’d like to be able to find a yellow that’s worth a damn that I might be able to use to eek out another stat point or two that I’m interested in for my particular build. Otherwise I’m just collecting Iron that’s exempt from auto-pickup, which makes it a bug to fix.
To take some of these arguments against these changes to their extreme conclusion then the game should only be compromised of uniquely designed set pieces, which fundamentally changes the nature of the game. I’m tired of the WoW progression system and I think it’s grossly out of place in a game such as Grim Dawn. I want the challenge of choice and balancing trade offs. That’s what makes a game interesting.
I don’t mean to sound rude, and I know I’m NOT the only person that responded to the thread, but my comments were based rather purely on what I quoted from the original post.
If I was mistaken about things, and it looks like I was when it comes to things like how late into the games yellow items will be a likely choice for used equipment, its only because I either missed it in the original post (entirely possible) or it wasn’t described or was left out. No harm there, a little correction or more detailed explanation goes a long way.
There’s only been a couple people who responded negatively to this update, myself included and probably the one most opposed to the changes, but having read some responses from your development team, I feel much more at ease.
Keep in mind, most people contributed early to the company because we were/are so excited about what you’re doing as a small development team. Of course we’ll be emotionally invested and have feedback about pretty much everything. There’s nothing wrong with that, we’re just curious or scared. Too often these days is a game shown to be one thing, then completely overhauled pre-launch, released as a shell of its former self and leaves the player scratching their head thinking “What the hell is this steaming pile of shit? They took ALL those awesome ideas they showed early on, ripped them out of the game and gave us this? Guess day one sales were all they were interested in.”
Very happy to read the responses and reminders of how truly useful yellow items were in Diablo 2’s gameplay early on. While there are still minor things that as a fanatical Diablo 2 fan I’d change about the TQ/GD loot system, I am definitely looking forward to B12 and eventually full release. Thanks.
I can understand why people get scared by announcements of seemingly sweeping changes when they are already satisfied with the state of things. The nuance of how changes will be implemented is everything and those details can’t be fully conveyed in a short or maybe even a long update. It leaves too much to the imagination.
I’m also not trying to say that this update is guaranteed to bring the game into perfect balance. Maybe we’ve erred in our judgement and will have to revert it; you never know until people are playing it. If that’s the case though, then we’ll revert or rework it again.
Sometimes you have to explore both extremes in order to identify the ideal middle-ground. I don’t think this change is going to an extreme but we’ll see whether it is closer or further from the ideal we’re trying to narrow in on.
Sounds like a well thought out approach… Definitely makes sense. Looking forward to this update now! Will definitely provide some extensive feedback.
Very happy to read the responses and reminders of how truly useful yellow items were in Diablo 2’s gameplay early on. While there are still minor things that as a fanatical Diablo 2 fan I’d change about the TQ/GD loot system, I am definitely looking forward to B12 and eventually full release. Thanks.
I’d be careful about that kind of statement. Especially the use of the term ‘fantatical’ (marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion). I know you, like many others, believe in what the guys at Grim Dawn are doing. Just don’t make the mistake that so many people seem to want to commit, trying to make everything exactly like D2 was. That would be a travesty.
I am a huge fan of Diablo 2, just like many here, I just believe in moving on in time instead of being held to an ideal of a game that has been colored by time and altered by biased memories. Don’t let the love of a game-that-was so possibly poison the potential of games-that-can-be.
I generally have faith in the devs to balance as they sit fit within the scope of the entire game. While I like collecting gear and hunting for the best rolls, I don’t necessarily care about all the nuances here as it effects my game play. So I think I’m OK with the way things are now, and probably fine with them in the future.
If anything (this wont win me any points on this forum) I think greens just drop a LITTLE (READ: A TAD) too much and blues maybe even a LITTLE bit too. I don’t care what color an item is, I just want to upgrade.
I also want to struggle with a decision, or use items at specific times. So, for instance, increasing or decreasing generic stats on greens and blues does nothing for me. Now, add a unique ability to a blue or a cool set item completion bonus that makes me struggle a bit with the choice to use a yellow with high base stats or a sick cool chain-lightening AoE proc on a rare blue…hmm, I LIKE mulling over that decision.
This is the kind of change that you just have to play through and see how it works like Medierra says. I wasn’t too bothered by itemization so far in the game, but I did kind of feel that as you got to 25th level, you didn’t really want to be using yellows anymore.
There is the added side that the player simply wants to use something which is perceived as rarer and more cool, and that this adds to their enjoyment on a more cerebral level. Encouraging them to use a lower tier item for longer may affect this little gaming endorphin release, but that depends on the player.
For me, as long as the item is doing something better than another that is rarer, I’ll use it, and I’ll use it happily knowing my build is better off for it.
I am really looking forward to this updated build (better balanced gear, yippee).
It looks to me like that level 24 yellow ax that I wanted to use, to replace the current level 19 blue sword will be viable in the next build. As things are right now, the yellows appear to be slightly under powered (at least compared to the greens), and the blues are over powered (for the difficulty/level range).
Now dont get me wrong, I really love the idea of being able to keep using a double-blue item well into the fifth or sixth level above it, but when an item drops that is 5 levels above it, and has twice the amount of damage, I would like to use it, but currently there is to much of a trade off, especially at such a low level.