I would not need additional content in the form of another act, more quests, or higher level cap, but I would like more variety in end-game play. I find the predictability of Crucible and repeating Ultimate content to be tedious at times (just my opinion).
I would love to see some kind of Map system, in which Maps could be purchased or even crafted (after purchasing or crafting or finding Blueprints for them), and which had some sort of random element to them. Different Map types could have area sections that look similar but with various pre-set pieces of map content semi-randomly chained together, so that each incarnation of a Map type would at least have a chance to be slightly different, and the Monster content could be at least slightly more random than Crucible is now.
Obviously, this has been done before in other games (PoE, Torchlight, etc. etc.) with varying degrees of success, but there is no reason why GD couldn’t jump on the bandwagon. I would buy it.
This is just my opinion. But I will put my money where my mouth is. Especially if a few more new items would be thrown in What, a new class too? Here’s my money. Right that was a joke, I will buy just the maps, you get extra money for a new class.
I recall someone saying that the engine can’t do randomized maps. And in my opinion, randomized maps are dumb and add nothing.
Main case for me was Torchlight 2 when after just like 3 hours of farming maps i was just done. Seeing the same textures over and over and seeing layouts actually get repeated was just boring. The map layouts were also utterly dull due to having to be randomized, nothing beats a well designed static map.
I am also not interested in randomized maps, I never saw any that were sufficiently random for it to really matter. I was still slogging through essentially the same ares fighting the same monsters and doing the same quests, it’s just that I did not know whether to turn left or right (which actually makes things worse if you just want to progress).
I much prefer fixed and well designed maps over random tiles.
Thank you for the feedback so far, but I did not say randomized maps, but maps which are put together with pre-designed level elements and have randomized content. I am thinking of something like PoE’s maps with slightly more random elements in terms of inhabitants of the maps, and maps with 4-6 layers or connected areas in which each layer or area is pre-designed by Crate but come from a much larger pool of possible layers.
This sounds good. I feel the same way about crucible & endgame content and would also like some kind of diversity, but not like Torchlight II’s total randomness.
It can be kinda-done with an enormous amount of work, which could be mitigated somewhat if the proxyspawner system was expanded to include more terrain elements. Edit: Although there’d probably be a lot of clipping/pathing issues, as that stuff is set up during map compilation time, not dynamically as the game is running.
But realistically, setting up a randomized mapping system in the current iteration of the engine is just not feasible.
Edit 2: If you wanted several hand-crafted maps randomly linked together in some non-deterministic order, that is possible as things currently stand, though.
This would be great too. Personally, the form this takes doesn’t really matter, as long as it’s random to some degree and provides “unlimited” challenging endgame content.
My issue with current endgame is essentially the fixed nature. Roguelike dungeons are fun but barely change between runs (some barricades move); having more of these, like the upcoming beast dungeon helps a lot. Gladiator crucible is the greatest challenge, but waves are practically identical, and it’s not especially challenging til 100+ (I don’t even find it enjoyable then, despite the rewards). Furthermore, and this is related, you basically need a completed gear set to do this…which is very difficult to put together without farming crucible to begin with. And when your character can beat Gladiator 150/170…what’s left to do? Repeat the same waves for more gear…which that character doesn’t actually need?
The game already has a tremendous amount of content, so this isn’t a complaint about that. I’m not really sure what the main issue is, honestly. Maybe it’s just the difficulty of assembling a full set of equipment on the character that actually needs it, rather than finding something cool (maybe 1-2 pieces) and having to reroll yet again. Crucible has become (well, has been) the quick & dirty way to farm legendaries, instead of having fun things to do in-game for the same purpose (don’t even get me started on ultimate Log’s shit drops)
I don’t really think every game should be the same. PoE has its own style, and GD has its own style. They may be ARPG’s, but they have their own flavor, and I’m glad they aren’t the same.
GD’s system encourages building a ton of different characters. PoE’s system encourages playing 1 or a few characters. That’s fine. There is no need to make them the same. Some variation is good in life.
I mean primarily what Ceno sketched, unless that precludes random spawn seeds for monsters.
I agree wholeheartedly that ARPGs should have non-trivial differences that distinguish each of them from each other. I also agree that GD and PoE are nicely differentiated. I cannot see at all any indication of GD being a game that encourages building more characters than PoE; quite the contrary, the price for respeccing in PoE is high enough to encourage creating multiple iterations of the same Ascendancy, while this is not true for GD. I do not really see a need for creating more than one character per Mastery combination in GD, while I frequently make multiple versions of the same Ascendancy in PoE. For me, the main differences between the two lie in the fact that GD seems more traditional (active skills on fixed trees), while PoE has itemized skill combinations. The differences between GD “builds” when read purely on Mastery selections often seem trivial, as most of the build definition comes through gearing and Devotions; PoE seems more spread out to me, while emphasizing skill gem combinations. Also, PoE gates much of its intrinsic rewards (bonuses for leveling) behind a massive gate of experience so that after finishing all in-game content one is far, far away from level cap, while the inverse is true of GD. In any case, I think PoE’s endgame is a bit more distinct and sophisticated than GD’s is – are you saying that this should be a value-neutral distinction between the two games (in other words, that that’s the way it should be)?
I’m not advocating random maps but would it really be that difficult for them to build the capability in to the engine? Couldn’t they just go lift some rogue-like level generation code, hammer it in to shape for GD’s engine needs and squeeze it in there?
I’m not making light of the amount of work that’s likely involved, I’m just trying to get an idea of just how difficult it really is.
The fact that GD has a campaign for levels 1-100, and doesn’t have a randomized end game is the main reason you’ll won’t likely stick out with one character. It’s also not an online game, where people socialize and play with others. It also doesn’t hurt that GD has no character limit, unlike PoE.
I personally prefer static maps. I can log on, play a little bit, uncover the map, and return another day and know exactly what I have and haven’t done. I hate having to finish a map, because I can’t take a break for more than 8 mins, or lose my progress.
They are built in very different ways. If they spent their time creating a never ending system, like PoE, then that will take away their time from creating content in a GD style for an expansion or what ever. And it’s also clear, the dev’s are not going to rebuild their engine. They might revamp it for an expansion, but they do not change anything other than fix bugs if it is game engine related, unless it is an expansion.
Well obviously if given the choice between more fixed content or maps, most here would take fixed content. Devs have been doing a killer job so far. Maps are something that’d supplement all that for those who want to continue using their high-level characters instead of rerolling.
Personally I love rerolling but A) going through veteran again is boring as hell and B) not everyone has the time or inclination to start from square one. Maps would be great for those people (and fun for all!)
I also agree that the levels the devs create are with very few exceptions lovely and exemplary, love them! That being said, I also agree that maps based on these might be able to offer a fresh breath of air.
One thing about re-rolling: Builds in GD are based on gear. Without gear, you cannot make a “build”. And you cannot get gear without grinding. Therefore, reaching level 100 and finishing the game content is not sufficient grounds for rerolling alone. That a character is “finished” then, as Zantai has stated somewhere, only makes sense if one already has grinded for some time and thus not rerolled.
As I kind of hinted at in my first post, there’s more to it than just building the terrain randomly. Creating the pathing mesh and generating the minimap is all done inside the world editor, not calculated during the game’s runtime. So these systems would need to be reworked (it’d be great if they could be calculated at runtime for my modding purposes, but I doubt it’d ever happen). And then, if they were reworked, sure, you could try to implement some level generation code too. But as it stands, the actual file format for the world does not allow for random terrain and world art to be present, unless you don’t mind clipping through everything with a blank minimap.
Most people around here at least, level to 100, use the best gear they currently have, then reroll, using good loot they had found along they way to inspire a new build. If their build is good enough, they might spend some time farming the crucible as well, or occasionally between rebuilding a new character.
Sometimes people come back to old builds to regear them, but the game isn’t really setup for people to farm on their characters until they are perfect, as that might take 2000 hours of play.
This is pretty much wrong. I have several builds who can finish the game with subpar gear without dying once, even killing Nemeses in the process.
Does better gear make builds stronger? Of course, that’s the point. But a lot of them can beat the main game with average gear. Only time where “gear makes a build” is when a build is enabled by a single item. Like, that item is the center of the build and it can’t exist without it. But these are somewhat rare.
Ok. That’s pretty much what I was getting at ie. how much “other” stuff would need to be reworked to accommodate the mechanic. I’m no game programmer but I have enough understanding to grasp the bigger picture
My point earlier (to which I think he responded) was that A) you can’t really complete a character without farming crucible and B) the only content you need to complete a character for is farming crucible and maybe the super bosses. So yeah, like you said. But if you complete a character there’s usually nothing new left to do with that character.
/ this argument chain mostly applies to/is for the sake of those who don’t have the time to invest hundreds of hours/roll dozens of characters. Also you’re being sarcastic about anecdotal evidence as though it’s true for everyone /
That’s why i completed dozens of builds and i don’t even have the Crucible. :rolleyes:
When i have a job in real life and i still have enough time to grind sets. It seems you and several other people just want sets to fall out of the sky with only killing Nemeses and doing rogue dungeons a couple of times. My point is that your “you need crucible to complete a character” “argument” is complete horseshit.
What, a new class too? Here’s my money. Right that was a joke, I will buy just the maps, you get extra money for a new class.
