[Idea] Wouldn't it be better if Oathkeeper gave resist reduction to Chaos and Pierce instead of Vitality and Bleeding?

mad_lee · June 25, 2019, 1:49am

tl;dr version: Oathkeeper should give RR to Pierce and Chaos instead of Vitality and Bleeding

I know it’s probably too late for this but still, let’s review the damage types that are supported by Oathkeeper’s resist reduction and that should, in my opinion be supported by OK.

Vitality

Let’s count the amount of classes that give rr to Vitality: Shaman, Occultist, Necromancer. You can mix all of those together and get a lot of diverse and strong Vitality builds. Throw Nightblade into the mix because of the god-tier Phantasmal Blades Demonslayer builds and you have another 3 super strong Vitality builds with NB. Let’s not forget for some niche and a bit less strong builds that are strongly supported by dedicated gear like Radaggan Apostate/Deciever or Blood Knight Death Knight.

All in all, huge amount of different builds of all kinds.

Bleeding

Classes that have Bleeding RR or very strong Bleeding skills (Bleeding doesn’t usually need double RR to work well): Shaman, Nightblade, Occultist, Soldier. Much less variety then Vitality, but still quite a few solid options. Gear support is not as nearly as diverse.

All in all, if Bleeding needs something more, it’s more gear support for different playstyles (like another top tier set would be great) but it surely doesn’t lack in class combinations.

Pierce

Classes that have Pierce rr or support Pierce: Nightblade, Inquisitor, Soldier. That’s even less then Bleeding. Moreover, only top-tier Pierce builds are Belgothians (and Shattered set ones that have less damage but can still perform well). No diversity. And Pierce damage STILL CARRIES %DAMAGE VALUES FROM TITAN QUEST.

Chaos

A meme damage type of Grim Dawn. A joke. Clunky sets that only recently became (actually just one of them did) good (Rah’Zin is a melee set that requires you to be able play some serious piano sonatas), RR from just one mastery that actually has least attractive Chaos offensive skills, a horrible horrible devotion maps.

So, do we really need Vitality support on Oathkeeper? Does it offer any cool Vitality skills we want to play with? No, not really. What about Bleeding? Bleeding EoR? Plain stupid, dot damage on a chanelling skill. Bleeding on Vire’s Might? Noone builds around it, it’s too weak.
Now imagine some chaos skills on Oathkeeper. Chaos modifier on Righteous Fervor: damn, that would be a cool way to make auto-attacking chaos Paladins and Sentinels. Chaos Aegis of Menhir? Also great, and already done by a set, just missing some Chaos RR. Chaos Judgment? Already supported, missing RR from mastery again.
What about Pierce skills? Piercing EoR Dervish? Makes sense, something that a lot of players would play. Piercing Righteous Fervor? Yeah, sounds great. Maybe even some kind of Pierce no cooldown Vire? Also great. But needs RR from mastery to work well.

Yes, change Vitality and Bleeding rr to Chaos and Pierce RR
No, leave it as it is
Leave Vitality RR but change Bleeding into Pierce or Chaos
Leave Bleeding RR but change Vitality into Pierce or Chaos

0 voters

omnitrio · June 25, 2019, 5:53am

I am strongly against removal RR to Vitality at OK

but i partly agree with mad_lee

I suggest adding RR to Chaos at OK and only this
that OK doesn’t need is Pierce RR

thejabrixone · June 25, 2019, 7:11am

Pretty good point you raise there.
I voted to leave vitality RR and change bleeding to chaos.
Vitality need to be there as itemization and skill design in oathkeeper are already designed around that. It will be too much work if crate change it.

However, bleeding seems an afterthought because previously from all teasers OK doesn’t have that. Also, current itemization for OK and its skill set doesn’t really support bleeding.

Chaos BTW, will seems to be really hot if OK has that RR. Strangely, so many item mod OK skill converted it to chaos. Sentinel will be much more interesting. But idk if it will fit thematically as this chaos will be included in the base guardian of empyrion skill like bleeding does.

x1x1x1x2 · June 25, 2019, 7:38am

I would agree but it’s probably too late. There are already a number of vit items, a few for bleed designed for Oathkeeper. Blightlord set would have to be completely redesigned, that new VM set too.

But yeah it would be good if that happened

Autentist · June 25, 2019, 8:30am

Strongly agree about Bleed. I consider it a meme on OK, it has literally zero support, and practically no one builds around it.
CHange it to chaos, please.

Rhylthar · June 25, 2019, 12:31pm

I disagree. I do build with it. Perhaps no Top-Tier builds, but it is possible for say SR-/CR- - builds for sure.
Dervish, Archon, Warlord…all possible…

Add Chaos, I don´t mind.

Zeren · June 25, 2019, 2:31pm

How about this?

Bleed seems to be pretty useless for OK. Change bleed to pierce and change pierce to chaos with the transmutter.

Non-transmutted C.P. = Physical, Pierce and Fire.
Transmutted C.P. = Poison, Chaos and Vitality.

Change the bleed of Crimson Wake https://www.grimtools.com/db/items/12480 to pierce or something else.

Thoughts?

omnitrio · June 25, 2019, 2:34pm

i like it
i think all will be happy

Rhylthar · June 25, 2019, 2:35pm

Why is Bleed useless?

Clarity of Purpose, Tectonic Shift…and skill modifiers to EoR (so not sooo efficient) tell a different story.

Edit:
No, I won´t be happy.

omnitrio · June 25, 2019, 2:36pm

Bleed RR to OK
can be on items
not on mastery

Valinov · June 25, 2019, 2:36pm

The bleed values for the skills/ skill mods would need to be higher to make them useful

Rhylthar · June 25, 2019, 2:37pm

If you want to change Crimson Wake, give Bleed Damage to something different as EoR.

Valinov · June 25, 2019, 2:38pm

My only real disappointment of fg was that oathkeeper didn’t inheritantly support chaos damage via skills and rr

kukuhimanpr · June 25, 2019, 3:53pm

don’t replace both vit and bleed rr on OK. pierce support is kinda okay with soldier, night and inq. for chaos rr on OK… just add some chaos rr transmuter on some OK skill. OK needs chaos supports… since thematically OK has similarities to occultists (one of which is the nonexistence of chaos rr on both of them…)

Norzan · June 25, 2019, 4:01pm

Oathkeeper missed the Solael class when it decided to follow the Witch Gods.

mad_lee · June 25, 2019, 5:06pm

Those Bleeding mods are honestly a joke. A guy from our discord has tested double Crimson Wake Bleeding EoR Archon in full Bloodrager and it BARELY squeezed in 7:30 minutes with the use of additional potions and some gd-stashed greens. Now you can say, wait a second, 7:30 is not meme-tier. But then it’s exactly meme-tier when it comes Bloodrager set which can even boost Physical builds to very respectable clearing times.

Also, chanelling skill (Eye of Reckoning) and damage over time (Bleeding) just don’t mix well together and honestly the whole idea just doesn’t make sense.

Tectonic Shift’s Bleeding is just a joke, numbers on it are small and there is zero support for it in-game.

@Zeren

That’s a great idea I wonder if that can be implemented.

Nery · June 25, 2019, 5:10pm

It will be so cool to see chaos RR on OK.Chaos is still under supported damage.

For bleed,OK is pure support class.I have suspicion with freshly buffed BA,the Warlord with Targo or 2h is monster.But will love to see more support to skills and not removing it from mastery.

Rhylthar · June 25, 2019, 5:16pm

And what? As I said, EoR on Crimson Wake is not ideal. I just talked with Shoot about Archon with Rancor (I botched it a little bit; took 2 Exclusive skills). Dervish with Divine Mandate (for Crit) and Guardians for RR like the good ol´ Stormcaller´s Pact Trickster? Warlord with Blade Arc (like Nery said)?

And, so not ideal, my Archon (DW) is SR/CR- (never tested more in Crucible). And there it is again: Diversity.

As I said:
Put Chaos to anything in Oathkeeper. But don´t delete anything Bleeding in it and Yes, if you delete Bleeding RR, you might delete all things including items.

mad_lee · June 25, 2019, 5:33pm

You know I am all for diversity, mate. Just take a look at what kind of builds I make. You know me.

But Bleeding part on Oathkeeper is more akeen to Bleeding on Korba set, in other words, it’s a joke. It’s not diversity, it’s a bone that is thrown to Bleeding enthusiasts like you, but bone has no meat on it and frankly it looks like an inedible plastic chewing toy that has been used.
Why do you need Bleeding Blade Arc Warlord when you can have Bleeding Blade Arc Witchblade or Bleeding Blade Arc Warder? Adding Oathkeeper here doesn’t add diversity, it’s going to be the same exact build. Same with Dervish, you can slap Bleeding RR on Arcanist and make an argument for Bleeding Spellbreaker.

Bleeding needs another set that is conceptually different from Bloodrager (like Bleeding caster Witch Hunter or Witchblade for example).

Chaos however is strongly supported by Oathkeeper’s sets and items, but it misses resist reduction. And Chaos RR on Oathkeeper would open doors to so many cool Chaos builds.

By the way, not sure why people are less vocal about Pierce, in my opinion, it’s in the same hole as Chaos.

Rhylthar · June 25, 2019, 5:45pm

Take a look. Occultist/Shaman. I don’t want to rely only on these 2 masteries for RR. Devotions? You know it: Huntress/Manticore/Revenant. Items? Skill Modifiers to (surprise) Shaman or Deathstalker relic.

I don’t “need” Warlord, Dervish or Archon. But it is nice to make these builds. Add Chaos, I don’t mind…but why has Bleed to be removed?