I'm probably going to get shot by Z for posting this, but RoH - does it need a buff?

Look edited above, I realized in a second how stupid I’m.
At this point let me rocket myself away from this theme ASAP.

Nothing to be ashamed of! :smiley:

I agree that the dmg penalty needs to be atleast -50% :stuck_out_tongue:

Your MOM’S IQ is -50%. :stuck_out_tongue:

:cry:

Throws dead Birbs at you

Now I understand.

After bying FG I started up my favorite little Infiltrator. I had no issues in Elite beforehand and went back to normal and started up FG. I had a hard time and wondered if I was tired or out of practise. It is an almost complete Rune-Trapper. I had only smaller problems and were kting much before, but now it felt weak and in constant danger…
Went to my slightly lower level Conjurer and had not much of a problem, doing the same thing. Shattered Realms were even easier with it. Will test my Witch Hunter if I am able soon.

As someone playing “legit” and levelling up it fells like a pretty deep hit for my Infiltrator. It was okay to be nerved, as sometimes mobs didn’t even get close to me (which would have been my death anyway :smiley: ) and combat shrines could be severly trapped, but now it feels over top nerved.

RoH is needs buffs, actually (or denerfs?). Op result was a fluke. Everything aligned. One in a million kinda run. The average time is either around 6 or zero because trying to go faster than 6 will get you killed most of the time.

3 Likes

Alternatively, a buff to artifact’s handling ultimate levels would be nice.

@adoomgod @sir_spanksalot
Nope, the rune is fine. Further nerfing will make it really bad
As @ya1 said, it’s one a million kind a run. More consistent setup does ~6min
Otherwisee, the deal is in extra RR on set and almost full pierce->cold conversion

@Dmt: I’m not suggesting a nerf to RoH, I’m suggesting a buff to it. 25% DR on it is pretty harsh because it affects the frostburn on chillsurge.

I made a thread some time ago about how RoH needs a buff, the 5% damage increase it now has isn’t enough IMO.

But I haven’t tried it since 1.1.1.2, so I can’t say for sure.

I never said anything about a nerf. Wtf

1 Like

buff RoH, nerf the passives?

@xervous - Which passives

EDIT: For the record, I’m genuinely curious, not trying to be confrontational

Steel resolve as it’s overbudgeted. Two resistances, two racials, a half helping of % damage and a negligible amount of flat damage

In its current state seal offers an abnormal amount of mitigation above and beyond that which is available in other masteries. Simply observing the results of many inquisitor builds that are also pairing censure to seal it is hard to say whether seal alone is responsible for the abnormal durability or if the high %RTD on censure allows midrank seal to completely block too many hits.

This leads to the mention of Censure for its %RTD value. Paired on top the best method of RR application (hands free always on) censure is another part of why elemental Inquis combinations exhibit unusual durability.

If these passive bonuses were toned down the rest of inquisitor’s skill lines could be boosted to a point where they can carry well rounded builds on their own without requiring every slot to be dedicated to what would otherwise be reckless offensive choices that only work here because inquisitor comes with hearty helpings of prebaked durability on top of its immense quality of life.

Let me mull over this. I’ll tag you in this reply later if that’s cool. :slight_smile:

@Xervous

Preface: Everything I’m about to say is just my subjective opinion. I don’t mean to be offensive, just straightforward.

  1. Steel resolve: Let’s compare this to AoTG. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/d2j1q7lN
  • Aotg: 150% acid res, 142% acid/vit damage, 18% phys res
  • SR: 40% chaos/aether res, 100% ele/phys dmg, 55 phys, 18% racial bonus to chtonics/eldritch (note the absence of ele DoT damage)

Is it that OP? The biggest difference here is the 18% racial bonus, which seems reasonable to me at least, because any nerf to it will be quite detrimental to chaos builds, many of which also rely on the inqui for RR.

All in all, I would say that it seems pretty even to something like AoTG.

  1. Seal + AoC: regarding the tendency for elemental builds to gravitate towards the inqui, I don’t think the solution should be to nerf what’s doing well now, but rather to look into why other masteries are being omitted. I’ll be talking about things from a very broad perspective, and I’m sure exceptions to what I’m saying do exist. I’ll also be talking about what I see as optimal, and not what’s fun or possible.
  • Demolitionist can’t do cold well as proven with the harra set, and the rimetongue set. The lack of %cold damage really hurts it
  • Shamans: Are predominantly lightning based (again, I’m just talking about elemental damage here). And what the only other class combination which gives both relevant %damage + RR is the demolitionist, which is rather difficult to pull off save for some niche builds. Furthermore, most skills which deal lightning damage come from the vindicator class combination. So that’s just a very natural pick, IMO.
  • Cold damage: Again, the infiltrator is the most natural choice here. Spellbreakers are quite dead, and tricksters only have one decent cold based set (Korba). Trozan druids deal mostly lightning damage given the skill modifiers from the set + the base damage of the skill line itself.

I could keep going, but I believe I’ve made my point.

I guess my point here is this - item sets, and masteries very naturally involve the inquisitor, and not other masteries. I don’t think it’s got to do with how seal and AoC works.

Because if you really think about it, it’s not like maiven’s isn’t amazing, and being forced to go AoC actually translates to DPS loss. (E.g. If I could, I would build a cold based trickster since I can get double RR from masteries + %cold damage from stormcaller’s pact).

Which brings me to the issue about other skills in the inquisitor arsenal. In its current state, the only other skill capable of being a primary attack in the inquisitor skill line is FoI.

EDIT: Overlooked stormbox. But I think the skill is fine the way it is right now.

Lol.

A channeled spell which takes obscene amounts of energy to channel, and which does more DoT than flat damage.

A channeled spell with a range SHORTER than its actual attack animation.

And a skill line where it’s near impossible to 22/12 it’s most powerful node - intensify.

It’s also near impossible to convert FoI into a single damage type, further weakening it.

It would take some serious changes to the fundamental mechanics of FoI to make it a top tier skill. I’m not sure how voidsoul deceivers perform, but my 2H solael’s devourer FoI build struggles to clear buffed/bannered crucible in 9 minutes. https://www.grimtools.com/calc/4NOOAdaN

And it has a dummy kill time of something like 16 seconds IIRC.

Which must mean that damage isn’t the problem with FoI, but rather the clunkiness of it.

Finally, returning to inqui seal…maybe I play too much naked crucible, but I think it’s overrated.

It really only shines if you can get it to like 18/12 (which most builds can’t, though I have no idea how the bonemonger performs here), and maybe pair it with another source of damage absorption.

You overestimate cencure+seal.
Seal is really strong on overcaps
My warlock doesn’t have seal, no cencure. And it’s as tanky as hell.

We both know what happens with 6m> builds

They go to “candy land” :blush: I really dislike the whole idea if nerfing RoH. It’s a caster skill, which needs melee auto attack as sustain usually… Be that Beronath or full Runebinder set. Also this build itself is strong, but is skill dependent. Honestly don’t think something from it deserves Nerf.

And since I made account in the forum Inquisitor support skills take multiple hits :seal, WoR, Censure. And people still propose even more. Inquisitor is great as support mastery, so what?

^I think this is the reason why you don’t really see other elemental dual masteries. Only other exception is the shieldbreaker, and the occasional sorc.

Yes but people were replying to me like I was going to. I can see how it’s a very rare run. Also I would not advocate for a RoH nerf even if I did think that the build was over-performing. I’d look at the itemization since it’s obvious other Rune of Hag builds aren’t seeing this outcome.

Rune of Hag itself feels more or less fine to me frankly.

Infiltrator needs no nerfs. Steel Resolve was already nerfed a lot. Seal is fine; if you wanna run sub six you gotta leave the Seal a lot, and so do naked crucible and leeroy jenkins SR aficionados. And it won’t save you from the real danger: debuffs + one-shot crits. Deadly Aim is the inquisitor enabler. Non-top tier builds have no oa/no crit without it. Censure is the best exclusive but… it’s an exclusive - reason why shieldbreakers are better than paladins; conjurers would also be better than vindicators if occultist had more elemental support. And infiltrator… is the obvious cold guy, geyser of synergy; nobody bitches that binders are better for aether than defilers. Infiltrator gear as well as nighblade mastery was nerfed enough, really.

Inquisitor support goodies seem very strong but it’s not like other masteries don’t have strong stuff.

I know this thread is not the best place to say it but RoH could use a buff. Silver Sentinel is the ultimate crit magnet. Playing it is pure shaolin. Even if someone manages sub 5 it won’t hurt the balance because it’s never gonna be the new Deathmarked or Agrivix. People won’t play this en masse. Another thing is that - despite being a blue set - it’s not at all easy to assemble. Alkamos rings are core.

But Runebinder could use a minor buff. Chillwhisper could also see more rune power as right now it’s more of a Blade Spirit build.