I'm starting to think drops are not pure RNG

Such is the way of it. Anyway, Crate has long ago grown tired of RNG speculation. They’ve probably been over the code far more than they care to and far more than anyone else here. I’d be willing to bet money there is nothing the OP or anyone else could ever say to them to bother with it ever again… they gave up caring years ago and frankly I agree with that outlook.

They gave up caring about epic items, vanilla faction items, and regular rare affixes years ago as well, which is why zantai is updating them painstakingly for 1.1.5

You’re not telling me anything special. Epic items needed an overhaul which is why it’s happening. RNG doesn’t need an overhaul… which is why it won’t ever happen.

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Maybe it isn’t what needs overhaul, but the loot tables themselves, but one thing should be clear to you, especially if you played the game and farmed outside crucible or shattered realm:

That most of the unique drops come from the same small pool of epics and legendaries (Final Marches, Sharpshooter’s set, etc.), while the majority of the build-defining gear, set blueprints, and epic jewelry, are locked behind a higher tier table mostly accessible to those with strong characters.

As a result, budget characters, who still need gear to progress into the deeper parts of the endgame, are stuck with slow clearspeeds, and experience a very small item variety with an occasional (Very occasional) item that’s actually part of a legendary set, whereas characters who already have every item enjoy a high variety of gear of all kinds, that they don’t really need anymore (for that character anyways).

Just like you, I doubt it has anything to do with the RNG Algorithm itself, which is adequate.

But it isn’t a good experience and will keep inspiring threads like this.

I play almost primarily just Main Campaign and I roll new toons frequently, religiously. After 13k hours, if I had to guess, I’d say it’s entirely possible I’ve rolled thousands of them and I’ve seen the loot go every which way and then back again. Over and over x1000. Even tho my not insignificant playtime can still be considered a drop in the proverbial bucket, I’m pretty satisfied that the RNG is more or less fine.

And sure, if they want to look at and tweak loot tables have at it I guess. It’s all part of the process of making a game I suppose.

I guess most hardcore players don’t even notice this as an issue since they already have plenty of items and full access to the hardest difficulties in the game.

Maybe the bias is on your side :slight_smile:

You’d think that… but you’d be VERY wrong. I delete everything. Often. This includes stash files AND blueprints/formula files. Not to mention I am most often in Normal/Veteran or Elite. My current (and currently only) character is a mere level 16. His shared stash file is currently extremely… empty. Try again on the bias.

I tend to prefer playing fresh.

First of all, this is my very first post. As a noob char, I can but confirm this very same catch 22 position I might find myself in (only have this one lvl 100 Char).

I’m runnig a Primal Strike Warder with following specs (cheers @malawiglenn):

  • ~92k Tooltip DPS (without Savagery buff)
  • 2k Armor
  • ~2,3kOA & 2,2kDA
  • all Res capped for Ultimate, bar a mere 55% stun

There is nothing farmed per se, but dropped (farming means deliberate action taken toward getting better loot). (have yet to finish the game in Ultimate -> I’m almost at Sunbane Oasis but completely finished AoM)

I tried Shattered Realm Ultimate and managed til Shard 6 but had small troubles with the Bossess (I reckon by the forum’s numbering system that might entail SR24). Completed it many times, nothing of worth lootwise.

I kind of died @Alkamos (rogue dungeon Steps of Torment) therefore I consider this a rather inefficient route to take at this very moment due to entry barrier (cost of key) and inadequate gear.


  • completed 150 Aspirant
  • died @~ 90 Challenger

The only path I can take is play the game randomly (or not so much) in Ultimate, to try to farm better gear. Would this be viable without having to sink 10 times more hours than it took me to reach 100? Game’s been massive til this very point but I’m hoping I can keep up with the necessary needed progression steps.

Cheers and have a brilliant day!

@Dmnaiz , could you throw up your build to grimtools so we can see what can be done in your case?

Cheers mate for the offer. I’d gladly export it as soon as I get back home … lol

While I can attest I am not an Ultimate expert (due to my admittedly abnormal playstyle), I’d say that his OA/DA are definitely short for Ultimate. Doesn’t common consensus lean toward 2600-3000 for both at Ult?

I currently have 2.2/2.4 respectively and I can barely do SoT.

being able to farm Ultimate consistently (that meaning the uper echelons of Crucible & SR) one does indeed have to be quite endowed on the [O/D]A front -> towards 3k

neither even having finished Ultimate nor being able to farm for better gear (hence getting better OA/DA) … now that’s what this post was all about

@Artemix i had experienced what you experience now in vanilla, and it was kinda frustrating until i manage a char able to clear most of the content (including Nemeses and RL dungeons) whitout dying too much and more importantly whitout high end gear
then i started to have enough drops to actually find regularly something i was interested in. something TF runs will never achieve because drop rate is too low (in the other hand it’s an easily farmable area). but RNG has no linkage with it, it’s more about the drop rate.

and what @Dmnaiz said too, that’s the same problem. that doesn’t mean you won’t find a set piece or blueprint from time to time but it’s too time consuming.

no, you are not, which is why it is anecdotal…

If you roll a die twice and it comes up with the same number both times, does that mean the die is not giving each number equal chances ? No, it is way too early for conclusions, you need to observe a much longer sample to draw conclusions, the same is true here

As a former Lineage player, I’m well aware of abominable drop rates. :slight_smile:
But scaling is also utterly important!

I am definitely not giving up on this game (though I did that very thing for 2 years because of a Blademaster level 66 with 3k DPS who could barely kill a fly -> when I returned, I just took up on some invaluable advice from veterans on these very forums, regarding viable builds … by comparison my level 65 Warder was pulling close to 18k DPS lol).

Though as many players do tend to fall in our category -> casual players, enamoured of ARPG games, I shall be keeping you apprised of my development. Hopefully I have something worthwhile sharing to those of us who can’t or won’t be willing to play close to 1000 hours just to get their first toon end-game geared. (as we speak, I’ve already amassed ~270 hours lol)

My grimtools link will be posted later this evening.

Do have a relaxing one mates!

If you roll a die 100 times, and from those 100 times you get 49 1’s, 49 2’, a 5, and a 6, something is up :).

Because the chances of that happening, if every side is equally weighted, is very very low.

If you for some reason, for the sake of argument, are comparing a complete loot table from 100 dungeon runs to the dice rolled twice, I think we will have to agree to disagree here and move on. The probability of dice repeating it’s result is 16,6% the probability of having the same epic three times within two Crucible chests or getting 30 pieces of one blue set and 20 pieces of other blue sets COMBINED during MC is… a little different.

For the record, i’m satisfied with the game drops, in fact i think it’s one of the most generous games for drops, and you can complete the whole game (campaign, SR60 cruci 150-170) with your character just by using faction gear and random drops if you spend enough time in front of the drawing board. But RNG is another topic, and GD drops aren’t pure RNG as some people want them to be (as it probably is in many other games). Nothing to be ashamed of.

which Zantai-blessed builds can do SR60 Crucible 150-170 with just faction gear and “random drops” (for which I assume magic affix MI and regular rares)? Tell us your secrets and while you’re at it, help Dmnaiz with his warder too.

and tell us if you’re using grim internals to teleport to roguelike entrances like some other people who also love to proclaim how generous the droprate is…

First build was pierce 2H melee tactician. I haven’t used any tools until i finished the whole game. Yes, magic MI’s and good faction gear helped a lot. Also i was lucky to have a drop of Blind Assassin helmet, two pieces helped the build a lot.

By “finished” i don’t mean farm. I died a lot until i got to complete shard 60. When i got SR set i completed cruci 150-170 (i traded for several legendaries but i have faction version of the build as well). 150-170 wasn’t on the first try as well, of course.