I'm starting to think drops are not pure RNG

@MatMB wholeheartedly think the grind was necessary and deep down inside I reckon both Artemix and I know this all to well :frowning:

@Artemix your whole rolling the dice parable, pertaining to that very case, is statistically sound (that is if that were the case, it would definitely be a statistical anomaly) but I’d give you here an example as to how most such games might be designed:

Lineage 2 source code was leaked sometime in 2004/2005. Therefore a throng of not only private servers but also mechanics info sites sprang to life afterwards (the truth was out in the open). One such website is lineage.pmfun.com (still alive). There you have full loot tables with probabilistic chances of drop. This is the very thing I want to highlight:

chance of drop in Twin Falls / Swarming Hive / Cronley’s for let’s say an Ultos component might be hardcoded as either 0,(0)5% or not at all even (as it’s definitely not an end-game worthy zone) meanwhile the components that you’d seen drop might be having a 5% chance -> therefore after roughly 20 runs you might be statistically inclined to believe you should at least get one of them.

Morale of the story: exactly what I said in my last post, the end-game rout might be exponentially more tedious than the whole experience of leveling to 100

Calling out a loot conspiracy when the loot tables have been literally open to the public for years is quite eye-roll worthy.

i definitely wasn’t talking about any consipracy, just brainstorming in a public forum.

@toapeiron I could have sworn I do not have to wait a single hour before a person answers something along your lines. Not very familiar with the topic, as mentioned it’s my first day of posting and being a less experienced player, but I’d gladly have a link to the loot tables (aka proof). That would definitely render this post moot, without the unnecessary, totaly unhelpful remarks mate!

Not sure he was addressing you directly there…

At any rate you are more than welcome to crack open your folder:

…within which you enjoy full access to every tool needed to peek under the hood at your leisure. Therein you will also find a .pdf Modding Guide. You also have access, here on the forum, to all the help you could wish for.

The mere existence and general availability of these tools, alone, renders the post as moot.

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i got an Ultos cuirass in Cronley Hideout :stuck_out_tongue:

Again, it’s the difficulty to farm when you don’t have access to high end gear which is in question, not the RNG factor. you have less reward in those areas because they are less difficult, but you still have acces to all the potential loot including sets and blueprints. i know because i dropped those items in there, but it’s much less efficient than roguelikes (which is the primary target when you start farming, before crucible and SR).

The comment wasn’t aimed specifically at you, although I wouldn’t call baseless wild guessing “brainstorming”. It just the implications from some users that Crate is actively trying to screw over them with cheated loot tables (because… reasons?) that makes me roll my eyes. Like, Crate is probably trying to force microtransactions on us with impossible drops!!1

Also, I disagree with the general sentiment that you need a god-tier char to farm crucible 151-170 or SR 75 because otherwise you’ll get sheit loot in other zones. Rogue dungeons aren’t as difficult as Cruci or SR. and the drops are still good: you have a guaranteed legendary drop in the end and plenty of heroes and bosses on the way (plus the chance of a nemesis). Any decently built character can do those consistently. I’m not too fond of Crucible farming so I got most of my good stuff from those dungeons, and I don’t lie when I say that I reached I point where I was so overwhelmed by all the endgame items I had that I couldn’t just decide what to play next… so I deleted all my data to start fresh and I’m already getting endgame items although I’m not even doing rogue dungeons yet. And here’s the thing: FG made farming sets a way less tedious and painful experience with the transmutation system. Now you only need the blueprint of a endgame set helm to drop and bam! now you can focus on farming the mats to craft a full set, which will allow you to push deeper into SR for even better loot, and I noticed that you start getting good loot as early as SR 40. No need to submit yourself to the horrors of SR +60 to get some decent stuff.

Some players don’t appreciate how ridiciously generous the drops are in GD, imo.

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yes, but then that die has 6 values only, here it is a lot more complicated to figure out if something is wrong, that is why I only mentioned two die rolls, you are not even that far into the RNG sequence after 100 runs (number of ‘rolls’ / number of possible values wise)…

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If these are all the pieces you got, I would tend to agree. If this is maybe 20% of the pieces you got, but looks like an unusal bump in drops for those two sets to you, then I’d have to say that your sample size is way too small to derive anything from it

The Crucible/Shattered Realm/Campaign all use the same loot tables.



Ok, let’s have a mental experiment, if you will.

There are 3 pieces of Baldir’s set out of 86 non-MI endgame epics (82 lvl+). For simplicity let’s assume i got 20 Baldir’s items and 20 from other sets during campaign (in reality it was more Baldir’s and i remember it well because i kept two chest tabs specifically for blue sets and they were clogged with Baldir’s).

For your feel of RNG, what are the chances of this occurrence - to get 20 out of 40 items from the pool of 3 out of 86? I know the answer but i’m wondering what’s your feeling for it.

17 posts were split to a new topic: Blueprint Rerolling

@OP: if you’re new to this game, the biggest advice I can give you is to get rid of all notions of ‘wanting to clear hardest content on my first character.’

Nope. If you hold on to that mentality, you’re gonna have a baaaaad time.

What you need to do, is to build a first character capable of farming efficiently. SR 65 - 66 from what I hear, buffed/bannered 150 clears, dungeon runs, etc.

All of which can be very reasonably done using target farm-able sets (i.e. dark one’s, krieg’s), &/or faction gear.

Agree with that, target farming is very efficient. Just by farming MI’s from regular champions you can in a reasonable time get items that are more powerful than rival legendaries.

To add to what sir_spanksalot just said, you don’t have to go that deep into SR to get loot that’s well worth the time investment. (keep in mind you need to do 2 shards, and not run out the timer to get the full loot)

Another thing I never see mentioned in threads like this is the Falds (Etram, Bella, and Algosia Fald). They can craft you random legendaries by category, it can help limit the RNG aspect somewhat. Of course, you do need the crafting materials, but gathering them might be preferable to fighting the standard loot RNG.

P.S: There is a treasure trove of knowledge in the guides/tutorial section regarding farming efficiently. I’d like to think that mine is the most comprehensive, and most atrociously formatted guide on the topic as a whole bunch of experienced players in the community chimed in to contribute to it.

@lord_mayak: Mate, can those dudes craft level 94 legendaries? I thought they could only whip up non-mythical items.

Yes, Bella and Algosia can. (The ones in the expansion areas)
iirc, Etram cannot.

I couldn’t even do aspirant crucible until my 5th or 6th character, and I didn’t mind at all since I had a lot more fun trying out the different masteries and their combinations. When I was able to do aspirant 150, it was with 3/4 of a set. When I finally completed the set, I did challenger for a very long time without even caring about doing gladiator. Then I noticed I was at the point where I had the gear to do gladiator, and that is where I’m at. This is, of course, before SR was available.

But if someone wants to jump straight to the hardest content as soon as possible, then they have the means to do so, with Krieg’s set, etc., as you said. And it is a lot easier to get gear than before, with the means to complete sets from FG. If you have the blueprint for one part of a set, you can keep trading the crafted piece to complete a set.

@lord_mayak: Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

@OP: Tangentially, I want to emphasise on the importance of focusing on level 84-94 gear, because you’ll never outlevel those guys.

@Anonymous918: Maybe we’ll have to agree to disagree here. I’m fairly certain that if I deleted all my saved data, got rid of GDstash, and played self-found, I’d be able to whip up a pretty decent farming build in about a week, and without spending 24/7 slouched over my laptop.

When it comes to farming/item acquisition, I think an understanding of game mechanics, and knowing how to maximize what you actually have is far more efficient than trying to find ways of getting things you don’t have.

EDIT: Of course it’s unreasonable to expect newer players to have that level of understanding. And of course many (myself included) may want to experience the unforgiving world of GD without guidance. That’s all fine IMO.

Play GD however tf you wish to play it!

The 2 points I’m trying to make is this:

  1. The game is not as item dependent as people make it out to be (heck, people have beaten it without using any masteries!)
  2. If you believe items are the solution to everything, you’re only setting yourself up for disappointment

I don’t think I was disagreeing with you. I was just saying there are different ways of having fun in the game. I’m not what point you think we are disagreeing about. I just went on to different characters because I wanted to at a certain level, not because I didn’t feel like I could progress.

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@anonymous918: My apologies if I’m misunderstanding you! :stuck_out_tongue:

I hope I’m not coming across as combative. I suppose I was just confused by the below, because I read it as ‘gear dependency.’