[In-depth Feedback] After playing Grim Dawn, here are a list of problems and a few suggestions

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
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List of problems and things Grim Dawn is missing and/or needs improved:

1. Windowed mode in Grim Dawn is terrible because, from what I have experienced, you cannot ‘snap’ the window in place where the window border across the top is flush against the top of the screen, and the window border across the bottom is flush against the task bar at the same time (using Windows’ Snap feature).

What happens instead is the window border across the top is flush against the top of the screen, yet the window border across the bottom overlaps the task bar and is not flush against the task bar.

With that being said, I have never had a problem like this with Windowed mode in any other PC game other than Grim Dawn.

2. Not only does Windowed mode not work right, but any time I change my resolution to a resolution of say, 1600 x 900 (not that I want that resolution, I am just testing the game out), the mouse cursor does not match up with any buttons on the screen, and it was a chore to get my screen back to 1920 x 1080 resolution again.

3. Edit: The default size of the ‘Alternate Quickslot Bars’ button should be scaled a little bigger in the main UI where the Life and Energy bars are so it is a little more visiable to the eye (prior to any player customizing the size of their whole UI).

4. Why are we not able to Keybind our Right-Click to ‘Rotate Camera’? Camera rotation in Grim Dawn would be much more fluid if we could rotate our camera while holding our Right-Click down, and then run around at the same time with our Left-Click held down.

As of now, camera rotation in Grim Dawn feels so stiff using the Middle Mouse button to the point I do not bother using the most boasted-about feature in Grim Dawn over other ARPG competition whose camera angle remains the same. Grim Dawn simply misses the mark on its stiff camera system when it can be made much more fluid. Not even when we tilt our Middle Mouse button left or right (some gaming mice have this feature), you cannot rotate the camera.

The only PC game I can think of that has one of the most seamless rotational zoom-in and zoom-out camera systems is GW2 where a player can hold down both mouse clicks to move and rotate their camera and use skills at the same time while doing it. When I think of a camera system in an MMORPG or an ARPG for the PC, that is the ideal camera system when utilizing a mouse.

5. There is no ‘Auto-Loot Components’ option.

6. Tabs in the Help window should be labeled and include their icons instead of just displaying icons that explain absolutely nothing. The tabs in that part of the game’s UI give an idea what each tab really is, yet they come off vague.

7. Implement an option in the Options Menu to choose between 3 different UI layouts, notably where the Life and Energy bars are. The default UI looks so bland and dated.

8. The ‘sell value’ of items should be listed on all tooltips at all times instead of requiring players to be next to a Vendor to see those values.

Knowing the ‘sell value’ of dropped items after dropped during combat will help us as players determine whether something is worth taking up Inventory space or not to sell for Iron Bits instead of holding on to certain items and merely guessing they sell for a lot when they may not by the time you get to a Vendor. And while a certain item may not be of use to a player, at least knowing its ‘sell value’ right off the bat will determine whether it is worth holding onto for vendoring.

That is a fair response I cannot argue against. As a new player, I did not know that, so I take back calling 8. and issue.

9. There is no ‘Mute/Unmute when Grim Dawn is minimized’ option. Sometimes when we minimize our Grim Dawn window to look up information, etc., some of us like to hear the background music and the ambient sounds like we can in other games we play.

Another thing to note regarding sound in Grim Dawn is every time we press ESC, the music does not play, and any ambient sounds do not play, either, when the game is paused in Single Player.

It is annoying because when we adjust our sound sliders, we cannot immediately hear the results of our volume changes. The in-game music and any ambient sounds should therefore still play while paused so the game sounds more… (a)live, for lack of a better way to put it, while all else remains froze in place to indicate the game has been paused when a player minimizes the game or presses ESC.

10. All readable lore: Books, Tomes, Notes, etc. should no longer drop anymore for any character that has read them the very first time, because they are stored within the Help window, anyway, after acquired. When I come across the same readable pieces of lore every time I replay the game, it is as if I never visited those places where I read them at all.

Well… that’s just silly, but hey, if you can sell readable lore in Grim Dawn (I did not know that), I guess… awesome? Shrugs I am trying to figure out how selling readable lore in the game even makes sense, unless whatever piece of readable lore is something a particular NPC is looking for, which I doubt is the case.

11. Edit: Other than ponds, where are all the water puddles in Grim Dawn?! Don’t tell me all the zombies sucked them all up with a straw underneath the ground. For example, when I was roaming around for the first time in Lower Crossing, I heard my footsteps causing water sounds, yet there was no sign of any water puddles, and I have my Graphics options maxed out.

12. Footstep sounds should be more relevant to what is being stepped on be it wooden floors, wooden bridges, stone walkways, piles of trash with metal scraps, etc. As for when stepping on wooden floors and wooden bridges, I have noticed only some, not all, have the right sound effect. It would be nice to see footstep sounds polished.

13. I would like to see at least 2 Load Screen art variations that are Ashes of Malmouth-themed instead of seeing one Load Screen art of a chick with two big kegs on her chest, and then apply that feedback regarding the Load Screen to all other newly-released Grim Dawn expansions.

How about a Load Screen theme that depicts a battle, or a Load Screen theme that depicts a particular scene? I may sound like a stickler, but changing things up in any game be it skill variations (more on that in 14.), load screens, etc. makes the game feel more fresh when booting it up and playing it.

14. It feels like there is no Skill progression range-wise and/or animation-wise. For example, Forcewave on Soldier does not scale in size or range and does not look any different from levels 1-16. At higher levels, Forcewave should have a chance to go elemental (the tooltip will explain this) into a firey Forcewave, an icy Forcewave, or a poisonous cloud Forcewave to list a few examples, but no, it always remains the same.

Note: The additional ideas expressed below as you read regarding what players choose to use for their main attack is about main attack animation variation with different levels of effectiveness (that begin to have a chance to kick in at x Skill level) depending on what triggers, not about adding new skills (difference).

Another example would be bullets (in fact, projectiles in general) from the Demolitionist that also do not scale in size or range, never change with variation between shots, and do not look any different from levels 1-x.

That is a big deal since we use some attacks 85-90% of the time, and when all we see is the same version of the same attack over and over, I do not feel a sense of ‘progression’ when I level my skills in this game. In other words, we see the power increase in our skills when leveled, yet the animations are not reflecting those progressions. That makes Grim Dawn’s gameplay feel more repetitive when using skills than it should be.

To improve Skill creativity/development and Skill progression visually in Grim Dawn, projectiles (and even melee attacks) should have up to 3-4 possible versions of any attack that trigger at random times.

For example, if a player is a Demolitionist and uses a firey bullet, that projectile has a chance to either be bigger in size and then explode into pieces of shrapnel that deal additional dmg to other targets, it can be a different color (like a hotter red that deals greater fire damage), it can move faster than the previous shot, or there can be an x% chance that two shots at once can be fired instead of one shot at x Skill level.

Or, if a player is using any bladed weapon (Axes, Swords, etc.), those melee attacks have a chance to break off into 3 different blades that damage multiple targets where the initial attack/blade remains within the character’s grasp, and the other 3 attacks/blades split off into projectiles at x Skill level… or if using a Maul, a melee attack has a chance to slam the ground with a blast of lightning that then ripples the ground up as it travels and hits targets in its wake that arcs out at 110 degrees at x Skill level.

Those are just a few examples to make repetitively-used skills (notably our main attack(s)) a little more interesting than what looks like the same spammed skills over and over again.

The verdict:

Grim Dawn has a lot of potential and does exceed in areas where its competition fails: It has an awesome ‘Inventory Sort’ button that even has different versions of organization, it has an ‘Alternate Quickslot Bars’ button, it has a ‘Complete Components’ button to consolidate Components, it has damage indicators, it generally has a more spacious ambience feel than other ARPGs I have played as a result of the music score, it has colorblind options for colorblind people (not that I am colorblind), the leaves fall from the trees, the bushes and the ferns and the flowers and the trees and lantern lights move with the wind, and the wind… moves with the wind, among other neat things.

Zombies may sound like alligators with really bad chest colds, but that’s okay! All jokes aside, other than the issues I listed throughout this thread, Grim Dawn has been a really awesome game to play as a new player.

Thank you for looking into this, Developers of Crate.
Valdrimari

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On number 5 i totally agree. It would be a big improvement in gameplay and, in the long run, a lot of time saved for the players

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I am glad you think so, because yea, Auto-Loot for Components would be totally awesome. I was surprised during my first playthrough that option did not exist.

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Um let’s see if I can help with your opinions about the game.

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On the alternate bar: where there’s a will there’s a way. I rebound the key map.

1,2,3,4,5 – core skills
w,r – camera rotate left/right
v – map
b – alternate hotbar
Caps – target pet
alt-1,2,3,4,5 secondary skills and buffs

That feels fairly comfortable for me with pinky on caps then 2,3,4. Getting to camera rotate, map and alt-hotbar is very comfortable. The solution is there already and re-purposing the lmb/rmb would just create a new problem for combat.

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You do know you can change the keybindings for everything.

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Yes. But how would you compensate for having a skill repeatedly fire from lmb e.g. Decapitation or Demon’s breath in addition to the basic weapon attack? It’s pretty darn useful right now to have that ability, being two birds with one stone.

  • A bit more of what I was trying to get at. Right now I can rotate the camera while also attacking and triggering those skills. But if lmb/rmb were rotating the camera that only leaves stationary attack and I’d lose the ability to rotate the camera at the same time.
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  1. Largely because Sell Value is vendor-dependent, as different vendors and different factions may offer you more or less iron for different items.

  2. Not true; many skills which scale a radius have an animation to match, such as Sigil of Consumption or Olexra’s Flash Freeze. Forcewave’s animation doesn’t change because the range doesn’t…unless you take Rending Force, in which case it should visibly get a little longer.

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It does not matter whether or not I exit the game; changing the resolution to something like 1600 x 900 (as exampled) makes it where the mouse cursor does not line up with buttons, etc. on the User Interface. The cursor is way off place, meaning in order to press a button on the UI, it requires positioning your mouse 3-4 inches away from a button until the button becomes highlighted.

Even if getting a 1600 x 900 resolution (as exampled) to work right did require a relog before the change takes effect, the fact you do not have to do that in other games (where changes take effect right away) is a reason Crate’s devs should look into the issue. You cannot offer players various resolution options and have them not work right and stand idly by and not fix the issue. It makes no sense to write that off as no big deal.

Yes, the UI is scalable, but when I said the size of the ‘Alternate Quickslot Bars’ button should be resized, I meant resized by default by the devs without any custom UI resizing being done in the first place.

Okay, so it has been suggested, yet not implemented. The question is why? Lack of funds is not the excuse for everything not implemented in Grim Dawn. There is a difference between lack of funds and the developers not thinking up certain ideas players in the community may have that may either be better or more creative.

According to Crate when you click the Jobs tab, the game is well funded, and I quote, “Crate is an independent PC developer with a current team of 12, led by game industry veterans with over 15 years of experience. In 2016 we released the PC ARPG Grim Dawn, which has sold over one million copies with a 91% Steam user rating and recently put out the Ashes of Malmouth expansion. [b]We are well funded[/b], with no outside investors. This is a unique opportunity for someone with a passion for core PC games, to work in a non-traditional, creative environment without the stress and politics typical of larger companies.” end of quote

Source: http://www.crateentertainment.com/jobs.php

With that being said, replacing UI images with other UI images (when swapping them out in the options) is really not a lot of work. Most of the game code is already written for the main UI; all that is done from there is replacing source files with updated source files. There are even fan-made UIs like the one seen here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzShsblymM8&ab_channel=Khena that looks great.

The answer is very simple. Knowing the ‘sell value’ of dropped items after dropped during combat will help us as players determine whether something is worth taking up Inventory space or not to sell for Iron Bits instead of holding on to certain items and merely guessing they sell for a lot when they may not by the time you get to a Vendor. And while a certain item may not be of use to a player, at least knowing its ‘sell value’ right off the bat will determine whether it is worth holding onto for vendoring.

Suggesting that Crate’s developers should polish Grim Dawn (or suggesting such thing to any game developer, for that matter) be it the sound of the game, the look of the game, or the mechanics of the game does not have anything to do with saying Grim Dawn has to be like every other game.

I never said Grim Dawn has to be like anything. The more I read your replies, the more I am under the impression you are taking my constructive criticism as an attack instead of understanding that I actually mean well by taking the time to review this game and list the things I believe the game needs and where the game needs improvement.

Well… that’s just silly, but hey, if you can sell readable lore in Grim Dawn (I did not know that), I guess… awesome? Shrugs I am trying to figure out how selling readable lore in the game even makes sense, unless whatever piece of readable lore is something a particular NPC is looking for, which I doubt is the case.

There is a difference between sound effects not being right in the game and a visual of water puddles not being present in the game upon walking over an entire area of terrain, yet the sound of walking through water can be heard (which makes no sense). I do not consider that a ‘bug’ as it is an oversight (difference).

-_- The game devs are not extremely broke as you seem to believe, and again, the devs have said they are very well funded. Lack of funds is, again, not the all-answer to all things not implemented in Grim Dawn. Furthermore, I never said the same Load Screen we keep seeing over and over in the game is not AoM-themed, just that it would be nice to see 2 more variants of AoM-themed Load Screens.

You seem to think I expect Crate’s developers to work on and patch in these suggestions overnight when in fact the idea in creating threads like these in general is for them to act like a checklist to things that should be considered in the future when Crate decides to improve certain areas of the game the community brings up.

That is a synergy, though, which has nothing to do with my gripe about almost all Grim Dawn’s skills players choose as their main skills not having enough variants to them. When I played as a long-ranged Demolitionist, almost all my main skill projectiles’ animations, range, etc. looked the same and my gameplay experience began to feel too repetitive.

Conclusively, and I hate to say this, but if players in this community that I have only just became a part of are just going to keep saying how ‘lack of funds’ is the reason for this, this, and that, and the developers listen to that feedback instead of pushing for change, anyway, that is why Grim Dawn will not also exceed in other areas where the competition actually does, and that same point goes for the competition as well that does not have what Grim Dawn has.

It is said you have to have money to make money, but sometimes for a game to make more money after they already have some money, they have to invest money into certain features, etc. to make money, too, otherwise, players are simply not going to stay tuned in and play some other game that’s moving in a broader direction.

When I created this thread, I created it so, hopefully, the Developers at Crate can take a better look at Grim Dawn and improve it to outdo the competition, and competition does not always involve trying to be like other games. That is not the kind of competition I am talking about, and when I say ‘the competition’, I am not just referring to one particular ARPG, but all other ARPGs.

When I look at Grim Dawn, it is to me (as it is to many others in this community, I am sure) what D3 itself should have been, notably because of Grim Dawn’s open-field PvP like D2 had, the gritty graphics and dark atmosphere, along with a few other perks Diablo never had and does not have. Therefore, yea, I am going to give any feedback I can to help get the developers make Grim Dawn even more awesome. It is almost the perfect ARPG; it just needs a bit of tweaking to the mechanics, a little more polishing to the sound and art, and a little more randomization added to certain skills players choose to use as their main attack(s).

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I am not saying that ‘Rotate Camera’ should be keybound to the Right-Click by default but that it should be made possible when clicking your Right-Click it binds ‘Rotate Camera’ with the Right-Click on the mouse.

As of now, we cannot do that, and while not everyone will sacrifice their Right-Click for ‘Rotate Camera’, I would simply because I believe binding a second main Skill to the Middle Mouse click makes more sense (when there is a ‘Rotate Camera’ system implemented in a game like this) than binding a second main Skill to the Right-Click.

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That is a fair response I cannot argue against. As a new player, I did not know that, so I take back calling 8. an issue.

Thank you for the clarity.

Okay, but my suggestions go beyond synergies; I am suggesting that certain skills players choose to main should have randomized forms of attacks, ranges, etc. (at x Skill level, whereupon the tooltip details it) where certain ‘random’ things start to have a % chance to kick in at later levels. The randomizations do not have to be elemental or have ailments involved, but change to melee attack or projectile size, speed, radius, etc. would be nice to see.

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If I am reading your counterargument right, my answer to your concern in the event you keybinded your Right-Click to ‘Rotate Camera’, then simply bind a second main Skill (whatever it is you choose) to your Middle Mouse click instead.

At that point it becomes a matter of opinion whether or not using a second main Skill on the Middle Mouse click is more comfortable than using the Right Click for your main Skill.

For me, it would be easier to rotate my camera with the Right Click and use a second main Skill on my Middle Mouse click, but that’s me, and that’s why it should be made an option for players who may think one or the other is more comfortable.

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If you are forced into having pick any of these things, then this is an awful idea. What if i don’t want any of these? Then i don’t want to be forced to pick any of them.

Not to mention there’s already a lot skills that change depending if you pick their transmuters or modifiers.

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Forced into picking any of what? My suggestion is to add a little more ‘randomization’ when players are spamming certain skills they choose to main, notably when it comes to most melee attacks and most long-ranged attacks.

Again, the ‘randomization’ I speak of has nothing to do with ‘synergy’ and does not have to be elemental or have ailments effects involved, but to simply up the speed of melee attacks/projectiles, increase projectile size, radius, etc. after spamming certain main skills players choose to main x amount of times. That does not make the game ‘worse’ at all, but keeps the gameplay feeling fresh as players battle through legions of enemies. The concept here is simple.

Maybe you like the same sword swing and dance (to put the old adage differently), but I don’t, because Skill spamming is not fun to me if there are not at least 3-4 different ‘possible’ variants of any main Skill that can trigger based on % chance. Hack n’ Slash ARPGs get enough flak for being button mashers with skills spewing out the same animation, etc. over and over for hours at a time during gameplay; let’s not encourage Crate’s devs to keep that boring tradition going. Throwing in a little more randomization will surely not hurt the game at all.

The more I read the comments here fretting about change, notably to skills, to make gameplay a wee more interesting on a visual and mechanics level, the more I believe it is not really what I am suggesting to be the problem, but fear of ‘change’ itself being a problem when we so often forget it is within us to ‘adapt’ to change (more so than not) no matter what changes may be made be it what I propose or what someone else brings to the table in this community. Therefore, if something is changed in a game, I say let it be, and then let it be picked at and criticized until the change itself initially envisioned comes to life the way it was intended, or comes to life in a way not intended, yet ends up turning out better.

Worse case scenario, if a change is greatly disliked by the community, then scrap it. Changes are that simple in the realm of gaming; at least they can be reversed.

15

At the end of the day, you are still spamming the skill the same way, regardless of “randomized” junk. Because there’s such a big difference between pressing a button and then the skill go off with no random effects and pressing a skill, the skill goes off and then random effects. :rolleyes:

This add no variety whatsoever to how the game is actually played. You are still spamming the skill the exact same way, so how does this add any variety to the gameplay? Transmuters and modifiers, which are already in the game, change how skills behave and how some of them actually work.

Not to mention how a lot of builds already clutter the screen with different effects, some of the time not being able to see what’s going on. And what you want is to make it worse by adding randomized stuff that clutters the screen even more.

What if i don’t want that randomized stuff in my skill? You are basically forcing those random effects on skills, where a lot of people don’t want them, including myself.

16

There actually is a difference, what I suggest being less monotonous visually and/or mechanically vs. the current state of skills being more monotonous visually and/or mechanically. Skills are simply not interesting enough in this game imho as much they actually can be like in other ARPGs I have played. You are pretty much saying there is no need for improvement for skills in Grim Dawn other than maybe a cry for buffs, which makes a whole lot of sense :rolleyes: So to break it down, you like power when it comes to skills and strictly power, whereas I like power and a good show at the same time that actually has results and not just fluff. What’s wrong with having both?

To give you an example just about anybody here can understand to make my point clearer, you can kiss a man or a woman in the same spot, too, yet there are different ways to go about it to make it more enjoyable either by changing the location of the kiss entirely, or kissing softer or more firmer in the same place, that which is often reciprocated depending on what’s being given. Therefore, what is the difference between that analogy and having the same attack do different things to an enemy (or multiple enemies) instead of the same thing in the same spot, or at the same size, or at the same speed, etc.? Why be complacent to have your skills all the same if you wouldn’t like your kisses all the same? That is the question.

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Can’t really comment on all of your points as there are a lot of them, but just want to bring up something based on the discussion here:

I’m not sure how “having funds” somehow translates to “throw money around cause we have it”.

A feature is implemented when it has the potential to appeal to a vast majority of the audience and (and this one’s important) generate revenue by appealing to new customers.

When something is too expensive for little return, it’s not just a matter of money though, there is the cost of opportunity to consider. As much as we try, days are still only 24 hours long. By spending time implementing one feature, we are then not spending time on something else.

As you aptly pointed out, there are mods that do things such as UI revamps, which I would say fulfills the need for the minority to change the UI to suit their needs. Saying the UI is dated is a very subjective opinion.

This is actually the case, with a few exceptions where the notes are generated from quests.

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Titan Quest was a damn good game, but it was not an economic success. It should have been! Grimdawn is a damn good game AND brought economic success. Like it should be!
There is always a balance between game design in detail an the necessary economic success. No bill was ever paid, because a game was good.
I am glad Grim Dawn is still running and very well supported, despite the economic setback from TitanQuest. Well done lads and thanks for the courage and risk-taking with this new game.

kind regards

Arkon

PS. I still live Titan Quest (terrific game!!!)

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I’m not attacking your comments nor am I scared of changes in the game. Heavens, if you’d been here when the alpha was first released you’d know how much the game has changed. But as Zantai said, changes need to appeal to the majority of players.

You’re not the first to make suggestions for changes and certainly won’t be the last. The devs do listen and if they think a suggestion is worth pursuing they’ll do so. But ultimately the vision of how the game should be is theirs, not ours.

As for funding, yes Crate is now on an even keel and has funding to continue to give us new GD content and also some new and different games to play. But that wasn’t the case in the beginning, you only have to read the early Development Updates to see that. And while funding may be good for a small team, it isn’t on the scale of the big players of course. So choices have to be made. Do the devs implement 3 different options for the UI or do they give us a new rogue dungeon to play with? What is going to give them the best return for their time and effort? Personally I would rather have more game content than a choice of how my UI looks.

20

And I am not trying to attack Grim Dawn and the devs at Crate in a negative way, neither am I saying anyone said I am, but I just want to make that clear.

I completely understand when it comes to ideas in general that, yes, they more so than not have to receive the appeal from the majority of players to get attention from the developers. However, some ideas pitched by the minority should not be ignored, either, just because those ideas do not appeal to the majority. Sometimes players within the majority do not know what they want until something is finally implemented (whatever that may be) that was once pitched by the minority and argued against to a controversial degree.

I have spent many years in other ARPG communities to know that, and in some of those ARPG communities, I am well known for my contributions in the form of many UI mock-ups to illustrate suggestions (illustrations in general), in-depth and raw written feedback, video footage of bugs, unintentional mechanics, etc. I can very easily cite numerous sources, yet I do not want to disrespect Crate by drawing players’ attention away from Grim Dawn (the game they love) to some other game. I am not trying to attack you, either. I am simply making it very clear this is not my first time reviewing a game. When I see problems or I see where things can be improved, I lay everything out on the table like most players do; what players believe important vs. what they believe not important is their opinion.

With that being said, you seem to only really focus on one prime example from my OP regarding what you think is not important to implement (for example, my mention of 3 optional designs for the Life Bar and Energy Bar UI) instead of looking at other valid points I made, like fixing something simple as Windowed mode that does not working right, or the fact that changing to certain resolutions other than 1920 x 1080 causes the mouse cursor to not match up with what a player is trying to click on the screen.

I never said I was the first to pitch certain suggestions/ideas to the developers of Crate, but that certain things have either been overlooked, have not been thought through well enough, or need polishing (difference).

What many players in many game communities fail to realize (the above quoted from you being a good example) is games generally turn out better when the vision is ‘shared’ when the devs listen to the community, and the community listens to the devs, because when game developers ignore criticism that would improve their game by going on their merits alone, the game either fails, breaks down, gets boring, etc.

You seem to be in favor of leaving everything in Crate’s hands and encouraging Crate’s devs to never mind what the community has to say. I mean, look at your wording. Just because the devs have the tools to expand the game (notably the main campaign) does not mean we as a community agree or have to agree with what they have done to the game with their tools. Again, a ‘shared’ vision of what Grim Dawn should be like (or what any other ARPG should be like, for that matter) is a lot better than a vision all to oneself or all to only a small group of developers.

Just because a game receives a great amount of praise vs. only a small amount of criticism does not mean to call it a day and make a foolish misplaced assumption that it is perfect and/or exactly where it should be. I am not saying Crate’s devs entertain that misplaced assumption. I am just making a point to serve as a reminder regarding what happens if/when game developers do.

Look, I get it; Crate’s team is a small team, yet so was their competition’s team a small team once upon a time, and now look at them. They’re doing great because 1. they more so than not listen to their community and 2. they do not believe their vision can fully be achieved without help from the community. That is what I want for Grim Dawn, and that is what other players in this community should want, too.

To ask who ‘they’ (the competition) refers to in the above stated does not matter because what I point out is a matter of fact for any game company in the event they listen to the community and ‘share’ their vision. I have seen their results, and Crate’s devs should follow in the same footsteps, not in a way to copy their competition, but to share that same game development philosophy so they can rival the competition much better.