It actually does matter which competition you are referring to because there could be many reasons why they succeeded that are not related to ‘because they listened to the community’, just like there are many failed developers that did
The way you state this makes me think that this is actually just a general statement that is not based on any developer / fact and instead simply reflects your belief.
Finally, listening to a single opinion is not the same as listening to the community.
EDIT: just tried windowed mode 1600x900 and the mouse cursor does align with the buttons
Well then you have not participated in and/or gave many contributions (feedback, designs, etc.) to that many ARPG communities as I have, otherwise, you would not see it as just my opinion and instead see it as a matter of fact, or to be fair, a ‘general’ matter of fact. I have seen for myself the results of what truly listening to a community does (listening not just sometimes, but most of the time) in various ARPG communities. Given the above quoted from you, it leads me to believe you have not also seen the same results beyond Grim Dawn’s community.
Furthermore, to paraphrase what I said, saying me saying that a game tends to do better when devs ‘share’ their vision (rather than entertaining a selfish vision) when the devs actually do listen to the community (and not just sometimes, but a lot of times) is opinion and not a fact is very wrong, notably in the event when certain game developers balance their views with the community’s views and then amalgamate them until something good or much better is finally achieved.
Again, no names need be mentioned as the above stated is common sense, that in conjunction with the fact I am not trying to throw any particular party under the bus, but making a general point when it comes to game developers balancing what they have in mind with what the community has in mind, not just what they have in mind alone.
When medea said the above quoted, my point was just because game devs have the power to choose what is ultimately decided on OR not decided on does not make them right all the time, and therefore, players in any game community should not be complacent because ‘it’s the developers!’ when certain things are either not right, need more work, or should be considered rather than being swept under the carpet just because a little more works costs a few extra dollars. Sometimes spending those few extra dollars on even small changes = helps the game be more fun and more enjoyable = more players player the game as a result of that = more $$$. Simple as that.
To take it a step further, if you think about it, no game developers’ vision of a game is completely ‘their’ vision without the community. Without the community, a game is nothing, does not improve, will fall apart sooner, etc. The merits of game developers alone are simply not sufficient enough vs. thousands of other minds behind the screen playing the very game they created. Why so hard to grasp? What happened to understanding 2+ minds is better than 1, or in this case, the size of Grim Dawn’s community better than Crate’s small team of devs? (even if Crate hypothetically had 200 devs, that is still very small in comparison)
So what am I getting at? Am I saying Crate’s devs are not improving the game? No. The problem here is some of you in the comments here seem to be okay with Crate’s decisions as if they can do no wrong, that if they did do wrong you are just going to suck it up and not worry about it. My point is ‘suck it up and deal with it’ ARPG game communities often results in a sub-par game that turns out not quite as good it can be while the devs prioritize only what is good for their pockets instead of listening to the community on ways the game can be more fun, more fluid, more functional, more responsive, etc.
P.S. I am going to bed now, but as far the resolution issue goes, I will be posting a YouTube video to prove it is a problem tomorrow, at least with some players, as the issue seems to only affect certain players (given what you told me that 1600 x 900 resolution works for you, but not me).
Just go to your mouse software, make the mouse software press the middle button while you play the game, problem solved.
I don’t get what your complaint is. You are complaining about not being able to attack easily with your LMB, and RMB, but you think the rotate camera has to be on the 3 primary buttons. What exactly do you want them to do, make a mind reading device?
I personally moved the rotate to my side mouse button. One controlled by my thumb.
You and I may be computer literate to utilize work-arounds (and I have done the suggested work-around), yet not everybody playing the game is computer literate, that in conjunction with the fact those who are not computer literate do not feel as though they should have to waste time to research certain work-arounds to make something work that should be in the game by default.
All I was saying in that part of my OP is keybinding our Right-Click to ‘Rotate Camera’ should be available to all players in the game itself without having to look up and utilize hodgy-podgy work-arounds.
The problem is therefore not solved because the very problem is the quality of life I speak of regarding keybinding ‘Rotate Camera’ to mouse clicks does not exist in the game. Whether or not that type of QoL means anything to you is your opinion. That being said, there is nothing wrong in suggesting a bit more QoL in Grim Dawn.
I can understand saying a suggestion like toggling ‘Light, Medium, or Heavy Rain’ in the Options Window is not really worth it, but I didn’t. Instead I suggested something to improve ‘Rotate Camera’, which is one of the main leading functions Crate has boasted about that most other ARPGs do not have (big difference).
Part of the reason I finally picked up Grim Dawn is because it does have a Camera Rotation system other ARPGs lack, but again, I personally do not like the fact I cannot ‘easily’ bind it with my mouse clicks on the fly.
As has been mentioned, listening to a community and listening to every single opinion are 2 different things. And I have seen my share of games absolutely ruined by following the pleas of both what the majority and minority wanted. Not everything people complain about are bad, and not every idea people have are good ones.
Anyway, your post was read, and if there were a lot of other people that had opinions similar to yours, the dev’s will consider those ideas.
Fixing Windows mode is not bad idea and will not break the game. Allowing us to keybind ‘Rotate Camera’ with our mouse clicks will also not ruin or break the game, along with several other issues/things I brought up in my OP (except maybe 14. detailing my gripe with the monotonous feel of skill use and skill progression in Grim Dawn).
Sometimes certain ideas/fixes should not even have to have a ‘majority opinion’, but should be implemented and fixed, anyway, because it only makes sense to those who can rub two brain cells together to understand it makes sense. That is my point.
As you said, my post has been read (at least 1 dev post is here), and any decision(s)/change(s) Crate’s dev may make as a result of this thread (if any) is ultimately their choice no matter what you and I think in our conflicting viewpoints.
I have said all I had to say, and we will see what happens.
Thank you for the feedback, everyone. As a new player, I look forward to see what direction Grim Dawn goes.
That’s kind of the point. This is a unique feature to begin with. I don’t think they intended for people to be twirling their camera angle while in combat. And one of the things dev’s often try to do, is not allow people to mess up their game play. Right click and Left click are supposed to be your primary abilities slots. It’s how all these games are played. So, they don’t let you mess with that easily. Of course if you really want to, there are other means to do so.
It’s certainly not a big deal to me either way. It’s really surprising you even thought it was a fault of the game.
You’re new to the game and the forum, so you don’t know that from the very beginning Crate has listened to what the fans have said and at times even solicited their opinion on certain aspects of the game. Here are just a few of these:
The devs do listen, even if they don’t agree with us. I remember a very early thread where the fans were arguing about whether the old rebirth fountain system from TQ should have been dropped or not. This lead to another poll from Medierra:
While the vote was in favour of keeping the random bonus, later Medierra decided that they’d go with a default bonus - and gave his reasons for the change.
So it’s really not a case of the devs “always being right” regardless. If the fans don’t like something they can and do say so. The devs may not act on their complaints/criticisms, but the fans have always contributed their input here on the forum. We certainly don’t “suck it up and not worry about it.”
I don’t think anyone ever argued that either would. I am not sure anyone argued that any of them would ruin the game, it was more a matter of ‘is the money better spent on other things’.
Money and dev time are not free, Crate may be in a better position than when they started, but that does not mean they can just spend it without consideration.
If 1 is an issue, it would be a nice to have fix, same for 2, which at least worked for me, so maybe it is a driver issue, who knows.
3 is personal opinion, 4 nice to have if it is easy enough to do, otherwise not worth it, same for 5 and 6. 7 is a waste, 9 nice to have, 10 is already the case, 13 again nice to have, with 11, 12 and 14 being a waste - and when I say waste I mean ‘not worth the effort it takes to implement’
So as far as I am concerned none of your proposals ruin the game, but they all fall into minor issue to no issue, but nice to have territory while you fight for them as if they are of high importance.
Sometimes certain ideas/fixes should not even have to have a ‘majority opinion’, but should be implemented and fixed, anyway, because it only makes sense to those who can rub two brain cells together to understand it makes sense. That is my point.
so the majority cannot do so ? I think the majority can, they just do not come to the same conclusion you did because they also considered opportunity cost, which you did not.
As you said, my post has been read (at least 1 dev post is here), and any decision(s)/change(s) Crate’s dev may make as a result of this thread (if any) is ultimately their choice no matter what you and I think in our conflicting viewpoints.
this has been true all along, if it is any consolation what other people say about your proposals makes little difference, the decision ultimately is with Crate.
proving my point that you are just mentioning what you believe and do not base this on actual examples
To take it a step further, if you think about it, no game developers’ vision of a game is completely ‘their’ vision without the community. Without the community, a game is nothing, does not improve, will fall apart sooner, etc.
you vastly overestimate the importance of the community. Sure, the community is what keeps a game alive, as it literally is the hardcore player base of that game, but as far as having much influence on the design of a game and thereby affecting its overall success, the impact is minor, and not always for the better.
So listening to the community is not the short road to success, or everyone would do this to a much larger degree than anyone actually is.
After thinking about it, I do understand why not being able to put the camera on the right click was restricted. Right click is a fundamental button. One that is used when swapping gear and selling items. If the camera was also put on those buttons, it would make those tasks difficult. It’s quite common for those two buttons to have major restrictions. It’s also common for the user to not realize the downsides of what we want.
I’m not complaining. I was responding to the OP’s suggestions and pointing out that binding any of the mouse buttons to rotate the camera simply means that something else, somewhere else has to be remapped as a consequence – a point to note is that it’s a bad idea to assume everyone has a gaming mouse with a myriad of input buttons.
I detailed how I use the I/O in an earlier post, but to recap: I use the middle mouse to trigger Calidor’s Tempest, LMB to auto attack and Doom Bolt and RMB to Bloody Pox. I actually use W/R for camera rotate left right. SPACE to switch weapons, V to alt-hotbar and B to map.
The main thing to take away from my reply to the OP is that what may appeal to one player will put-off another, and how we use input devices is a matter of personal preference (as mentioned by the OP). I think it evidenced by the fact that the devs allow us to reconfigure the I/O that this basic functionality is almost a standard and assumed.
I’ve played many a game where the camera and player movement is controlled in the manner that the OP is referring to and it certainly works. But it won’t alter the fact that there are fixed number of input commands to a game and that changing one requires changing another.
Coming from a long history of ARPGs there are some suggestions that come into mind, how viable and/or balance breaking they are is a whole different thing.
Sorry, if some of these are listed earlier, but thread is long and windy.
First off there ought to be some viable ways for cunning or spirit centered classes (classic rogue and mage) to stay alive, to put all, or most of, attribute points into physique is a bit silly, all the end-game toons beign bodybuilders.
It would make placement of attributes a bit more intresting and varied.
Secondly why on earth does a spellcaster need OA to place his meteor well, like there’s not much aiming needed. Maybe chance OA to physical and mystical?
Could we have damage conversions as a four part component to be used in any slot?
Granted the conversions in skills need to be changed into something more suiting to the class.
Shouldn’t physique also affect the damage and chance to pierce armour a bit?
The last one is a biggie, but maybe make a crafting system centered around dismanteling?
There are some games, that allowed freedom of breaking stuff apart and then rebuilding em again for more personal touch.
Maybe breaking equipment abilities into gems that could be combined into better versions, maybe even bought.
I know the element of RNG beign part of the fun, but as it is now don’t see much point in dismanteling feature.
Hope I don’t come out as a whiny millenial, is still love the game, but it could be made EVEN better.
Oh, and I need moar lore of Cairn, some history and maybe world map.
About the camera, I wish it was a bit less bouncy, less acceleration.
I’ve been playing Shadow Tactics (another game with top down “isometric” viewpoint) and the camera there is a lot less smooth but feels so much more responsive. See at 0:07
I don’t find it stiff like the OP, I find it almost clunky to use due to the insane amount of acceleration, you always end up guessing where it’ll stop.
Could make it so you hold down the ‘vacuum’ button auto pickup components. That way you don’t have to click on each component but you’d be able to pick up groups of them instantly. Would solve the issue with not being able to who drops a specific component if you consider that to be a significant issue.