i dont’ get it? your post says Sorc clears 75-76, rather fine even facing grava? also managed rabagur?
and the main notice was speed?
how is that suddenly “not so much” @_@
those are all outdated or/and poorly min-maxed and hardly working, not really a good representation, imo
not the point?, it’s examples of existing/working chaos BWC builds
if you want better than Duchy performance then it’s not my job to deliver that? - or rather ask for chaos BWC buffs so the chaos bwc stuff “makes sense” in the meta performance criterias
I think if the archetype was really working and viable you would see more builders making builds around it. Your examples kinda tell the other story: that IK spam Chaos BWC is a forgotten archetype that noone wants to deal with really.
@Gnomish_Inquisition yes it was fine when it comes to sustaining with the devo route I mentioned but overall the toon is still on the slow end.
These are some standard item’s you’d take for chaos BwC, with set and with custom items respectively.
Set does provide a small bit of extra BwC dmg. But custom items give you: +1 to second mastery skills, 4% more cdr, better cc res, vastly more OA, 100% more dmg, valuable vitality conversion and healing proc.
Now tell me, why do we have to cling onto set properly supporting chaos BwC when in reality simple selection of custom items is superior?
1 Like
why should we have any sets where custom setups are better then?
*and personally i dont’ aggree with some of your item choices, tho i’m assuming they would be “technically” best by meta standards?
^but then the request should be to buff the set for its purpose, not gut it
also because of not having to remake existing builds “just because a custom setup is slightly superior”, eg remove all sets with superior custom setups
and incase you ask, my thoughts we be to use kaisan neck, BWC offhand and dracarris mainhand, if not going BWC meme mainhand
*reason being to get as many BWC mods as possible “to squeeze all the dmg out of bwc itself”
1 Like
We shouldn’t. What’s the purpose of the set if you can make the same but better from scrap metal?
These are just good items, i didn’t optimize it for either version. I invite to just inspect what set gives to chaos BwC and what custom (nonfantasy) items give. As lee pointed out, chaos BwC main dmg source is Demon Fire, and set gives zero points to it. In fact, the entire set gives total of 2 skillpoints to any chaos oriented skill (Hellfire Mines).
It’s been like what, 2 years of patches with endgame builds as a baseline of balance? And it seems to be working fine for the entire game. Let’s not go back to defending particular meme builds when they have objectively better alternatives.
Currently set is in some weird fire-chaos limbo. It either needs to properly support chaos to be a superior choice for what it does, or leave chaos as cosmetic meme option and focus on fleshing out the fire part.
2 Likes
variety? ease of acquisition? different build setups providing slightly different stats for further tweaks to be allowed?
again, flat dmg, which is big on spam
heck you have mergos pointing out that spam lacks speed, so would think the same goes for chaos? and as chaos we then woudl want extra to squeeze out all the bwc mods we can by stacking all the fire mods, like on IK
and i’m not arguing against demon fire support, but you still have 10slots to get those points, which should be somewhat doable from a design perspective? ie it might not deserve to be the reason we consider gutting chaos bwc from IK since sometimes sets just make you get skill points elsewhere
1 Like
While we at it…
I mean, it plays alright however needs some energy issue solution
Cuz even with like -20% energy cost reduction spamming that feels so, so weird.
EDIT:
Actually did naked crucible glad + 6th spawn point (basically all baddies) and came victorious… no I must say firstly thanks for inspiring me to make it, it was fun playing with it, and second, it doesn’t seem too shabby with energy when I run around there unlike only 1 v 1 ravager.
I did die 2 times prior but that’s basically the life of the hardest diff crucible. No shame indeed.
I don’t think the purpose of balance done in past years is to provide you with variety of gear selection to achieve the exact same build. We are looking for variety of gameplay, not skin variety. You have transmog guy for that.
Flat dmg has the same effect on dmg capabilities of both spam and cd versions of chaos BwC because dot is not a part of the equasion. And you already saw that the actual benefit of the set, considering it can’t max Demon Fire, it much smaller than wht custom items give.
Demon Fire is a rare bonus on gear. With IK you can only max it out (without taking gabage blue items) if you ditch Oblivion (sustain goes down by 60%) or one of the rings that provide rr (big dmg drop vs resistant enemies).
We get into too much of nonexistent build details for the discussion to continue make sense. I think both made their points, let’s move on.
it can tho?
the set doesn’t block demon fire modifiers, i dont’ know what you’re arging here?
and you have less dmg on custom as result
and this is an issue how or why?
why would i even want oblivion on spam bwc?, i can’t use both anyway, so clearly my sustain should be elsewhere?
Definitely no
Show me facetanking
22 demon and 18 agonizing on custom: 115-183 chaos = 20-32 more, 30 fire
20 demon and 20 agonizing on IK setup: 95-151 chaos + 38fire and 172% fire + 50 fire from IK = 88 fire +172% (since the mod is affecting the IK fire too)
so you “gain” 20-32" chaos, lose 8 direct fire and 30-18 from the IK fire mod
that is 38-26 less BWC dmg, not even counting the additive effect of %fire agonizing has on IK bonus
You can still use it to switch to it at times when you need leech. Tbh i dont even udnerstand what a sustainable chaos spam BwC should look like.
I tried to list a template for a chaos BwC build. I’m yet to see an up to date, sustainable build you are so vigorously defending. I’m pretty sure we will then be able to insert custom items, switch couple more items around and get the same or better build which would render IK for chaos BwC functionally moot.
You will have slightly lower flat before %dmg on BwC in grimtools. And a better build in the outcome.
Good point, have a nice day.
it’s not a tank, I run around like a headless chicken and spam the skills in the middle.
Damage is definitely there but having an energy crisis while doing so.
Im just gonna leave this here. You guys tell me how it looks like.
I get that DA is not the most important thing but there barely is any. Why not max blood of dreeg for additional OA and why not remove 10 points from oathkeeper and spend them more into overcapping judgment.
In theory, I suppose oblivion could fumble while u do judgement and doom bolt but that cocktail would have saved u imo (which cannot be done due no being demy).
I get that too, but it wasn’t the point of what i was trying to show here. My intention was to show what happens when you used a multiclass set to do something else than the mainstream. In this case there isnt much to be done because building around chaos judgment doesn’t bring out proper support since skill points are missing and conversions for it are awkward, mainly if you convert phys to chaos, you won’t convert the trauma to burn which is huge, and the other way, if you convert phys to fire you’ll have plenty of burn but how do you turn it to chaos?