I’m just gonna leave these here.
In game resistances are fine. Build lacks sustain (what more should i sacrifice to get some sustain?!) and much needed conversion. Smth smth more cdr, damage and maybe adtch to judgment/heart of wrath?! Smth smth missing cdr on helm/weapon? Smth smth missing demon fire points across the board? Also another aspect i noticed is no matter how i build this, i always end up struggling for OA/DA.
Back with some retweaks with @banana_peel’s help and its finally somewhat stable now. Here are some samples.
[1198] IK shieldbreaker (banana tweaks) vs ravager - pharma (sketchy) - YouTube
[1198] IK Shieldbreaker (banana tweaks) vs SR75-76 (neutral) - YouTube
This setup makes the build somewhat stable but it kinda beats the purpose of the set by several facts:
Conclusions: we had to gut it a lot to a point where single target damage isn’t in a decent spot, yet it still feels very sketchy when playing. Average crucible is 4.30, ravager winrate is 1/4, SR75-76 is mostly 7minutes but i did die a lot in there and ofc with so many toggled buffs arcane mobs will f**k you up (which is what happened several times the last 7 hours since i’ve been on this). Another aspect is that the judgment part of the set is underwhelming and investing in it force you to sacrifice tankyness and % dmg via gloves slot.
Suggestions:
As someone who was making IK builds since forever I mostly agree with the feedback.
I’d say that some kind of burst heal proc (like the Dryad but as a full set bonus) could go a long way.
I’ve made a few more tweaks, ran it back and got good results vs Ravager and in Crucible.
The set has damaging proc and supports damaging skills. But all of them provide no sustain. You have to go extra mile in gear (including quite impossible greens) and devos (basically take every defence you possibly can) to make it feel good to play.
I suggest to add 25% armor to 3 set bonus and 25% healing increase to full set at a cost of some proc dmg.
Also playing chaos with this set is a huge downgrade: burn is a huge part of the set, to compensate the loss you need full dual t3 chaos devo map and you lose all sustain you had with fire. Chaos + fire duality is not supported enough by devos and gear to make the split work. Reworking it into either of the two dmg types and leaving the second one (presumably chaos) as pure cosmetic seems like the best way to go. Right now small chaos flat to long cd Judgment as full set bonus looks like a troll.
IK doesn’t need to be fire or chaos, it can be both, since it gives you the option to do either fire build or chaos builds
it works as fire bwc set, it works as chaos bwc set; changing the set into only 1 would remove half of these builds,
changing it to 1dmg type only would be a ridiculous approach, in my humble opinion 
it’s a downgrade no matter how you look at it
Have you seen a good chaos IK build? Maybe i missed smth.
by your standards? probably not
but i personally also don’t care about those as build metrics/don’t need to kill ravager on all my builds, and think the notion of gutting half of potential set builds because a specific setup can’t is out of place
my meme chaos bwc purifier runs crucible, sr lokar and dungeons, and i’m fine with that
Mergos’ IK fire bwc shieldbreaker/sorc? clears things fine
the set does not need to be gutted to make either of these more stable by removing half its builds/build variety potential, or ravager capable or "top meta approach criteria"fitting
it can however be buffed to help both - and ignore the ravager requirement`
ex could be to slap 50% vit converted to fire on Herald of Blazing Ends bwc stick to help with the bat/scales conversion without losing dmg by going korvaak dagger
It’s not about “top meta” compatible, it’s about dedicated set working as advertised with skills it supports. Right now the part of IK that works is cooldown BWC (and set was intended for a spam one). Judgment part of the set is very weak on both ends: Chaos and Fire. There is no conversion or flat cooldown reduction to Judgment. Plus Chaos Judgment needs extreme steroids to be viable as the big part of Judgment - dot damage - is absent with Chaos damage types.
Another thing it’s a dual mastery set, so it only really fits Shieldbreakers. And you are basically choosing if you want to play BWC/Judgment with Fire flavour or if you want to play absolutely same BWC/Judgment but with the inferior Chaos flavour. I am all for build diversity and having more fun options but honestly this one doesn’t look like an option at all. Chaos IK Shieldbreaker is basically the same Fire IK Shieldbreaker with more or less same visual effects but with much less firepower and survivability.
Also, Chaos BWC medal is in conflict with Chaos Judgment medal, so this “fun” Chaos playstyle is just super handicapped right now.
set works as pyro, purifier, sorc, for spam bwc, i don’t see the argument there
need i remind people that just because a set support 2 skills at the same time, doesnt’ mean you have to only build around those 2 skills “at the same time”
you can make spam bwc viable without going shieldbreaker, you can do so as fire and chaos
gutting the set to only support either fire or chaos, would effectively remove half of those bwc builds, no matter the judgment support
it’s a bwc set
judgement was added later; feel free to ignore it
I remember trying this set out as a Defiler, just to see if it’s possible for it to work, and even with -45% Fire Resistance to Siphon Souls, it still worked horribly in terms of SR clearing (and let’s not even think about Crucible).
So all these things about the set needing OA/DA, providing some sustain to the set, some healing increase, all of which can benefit other Infernal Knight builds as well, I’d like to see versions that “work” before concluding that the set doesn’t need a few nudges in the right direction.
not what’s being said
what’s being said the set doesn’t need to gut half its build potential, stripping chaos or fire down to only 1, for said buffs to survival to happen
Does the set works or do you mean that those class combos can play spam bwc playstyle and have moderate success (obviously being on par with “meta” builds is out of discussion) because you as a player forced them to? Does set really enable this?
To clarify what I mean I give you the examples of the sets that actually enable playstyles instead of acting like mediocre stat sticks: Belgothian set enables Pierce AA/WPS slaughter on Blademasters because it actually gives that closs combo an aa that can synergize with WPS and then also additional weapon damage multipliers to wps. Or Goredrinker that promotes hybrid WoP/Cadence playstyle on Tacticians not only makes WoP a great Bleeding spell but it also gives an absurd amount of leech to actually make Cadence workable.
Infernal Knight promotes spam BWC playstyle but there is nothing on the set that would actually make it work. There is no healing mechanic, there is no additional defensive mechanic, anything that will make your puny Demolitionist stand its ground and spam cocktails.
yes
ffs, mergos has 2 fire builds with this set, good enough to post, maybe not good enough for the meta gang, but good enough he felt them worthy to post to the community
i have posted a meme purifier in my own collection, which might not be optimal for the meta gang either, but clearly shows the set can work with this “as intended”; even if it doen’t reach meta criteria
stop focusing on the judgment part then, make spam BWC a thing, advocate for buffs to make BWC builds better: without gutting half the builds to make it only fire or chaos
Shar’Zul also has %phys dmg on it and has phys on proc. Doesn’t mean it’s a phys weapon.
If someone wants to play non-optimized builds it’s totally fine, i play a lot of those. Nobody suggests to remove %chaos from the set. But right now the set is hindered by ancient heritage of the implication it’s created equally for fire and chaos. In reality the gap between them can’t be closed.
Speaking of diversity, chaos BwC works fine. Just not with this set that gives almost nothing to chaos BwC itself. And Judgment part is jsut a troll.
I’m not a fan when people defend thier particular builds with particular items at the face of possible more broad changes. I bet a good buck your meme chaos BwC Purifier will be better off without IK set.
Look, good for Mergo (he is in our gang btw and he was putting it together asking me for a bit of advice on it), but you are missing my point.
“Making something work” and “set enabling playstyle it advertises” are different things, imo. Builders made the most “off-meta” things work.
But “spam BWC” playstyle requires much more than just couple of bwc skill points and a minor damage/radius mod.
because it has phys to fire conversion
talk about apples and oranges comparisons: and you know this man
it is not, in any way whatsoever, and nothing demonstrated here has suggested that
it has suggested that spam bwc struggle to sustain, not that chaos BWC is unsupported or unviable in a larger degree so shouldn’t exist than spam fire
except flat dmg, which is big on spam, aoe, and skill points…
not arguing against that
but saying that the set doesn’t have enough direct BWC support for meta criterias, is not the same as “chaos bwc doesn’t work/is so unsupported we might as well remove it”; which is incorrect on multiple levels
not all builds need to perform equally, and the solution is not to gut builds that don’t when those builds are still supported and viable, but buff the underperforming aspects
But it is unviable to the larger decree than spam fire. First of all, set doesn’t give zilch to Demon Fire - biggest flat Chaos part in the whole BWC. Secondly, dot part will be much less potent if you go Chaos route in devos items. Thirdly, as much as you are suggesting to ignore Judgment part, it’s still on the set and it’s still played as secondary damage skill. And Chaos Judgment medal is in conflict with Chaos BWC medal.
As I said, Chaos BWC needs Demon Fire points and set gives none. And it gives much higher flat damage bonus because it has no dot component.
Again, it’s not about “meta criterias”, it’s about making the playstyle viable thru itemization. It has been done a lot in GD throughout the years, why can’t we have it here? And by viable I mean having some kind of sustain around spam BWC.
Not my argument, not saying that. Not sure if it even was @banana_peel 's argument there.
It wasn’t. The actual argument was that what would be needed for a Chaos BWC approach to work is so different from what’s needed for a Fire BWC approach that there’s no point in holding on to the Fire/Chaos duality and instead shove the set towards a Fire/Burn direction (and removing things like the Chaos Judgment 4-piece bonus because such a small bonus has no place being a 4-piece set bonus).
And like Lee said, considering the set has no Demon Fire support, which is the biggest flat Chaos addition to BWC, come out and actually show Chaos BWC builds that work, and question does it actually need the IK set for it for function, or can it be pieced together using non-IK pieces?
it could: with less dmg, and BWC doesn’t exactly want less dmg as it is
so, clearly these builds are viable: now suggest to make them “meta” viable, instead of this “IK is fire only set”
when it comes to clearing: