So shotgun skills are far better at adcth then one large attack, then?
I think you guys just opened Pandora’s box here by bringing it to light.
I’m all for balance. If it needs to be nerfed, then so be it. Though I don’t see anything broken about the current state of things (though PB could be toned down a little)
Regarding malawiglenn’s guide - don’t get me wrong, I’ll b the first person to vouch for mala. I like him a lot, and I respect/trust his deep understanding of mechanics.
That being said, I don’t see any concrete tests done in his guide, and would have still asked him how he tested/verified his claim on the 100% WD claim.
Quick side question that came up reading your dialogue: when an item skill modifier e. g. turns all chaos dmg on Fs to fire, this goes only for the main skill and NOT for all its mods like explosive strike etc??
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What makes you think so?
As far as i know, it works for modifiers too.
Because you’re capped at 100% WD.
Whereas each projectile of a shotgun-esque skill will always be below 100% WD. But when added together, they may very well surpass 100% WD.
This is incorrect. By and large transmutors WILL affect all skill nodes.
There are exceptions like explosive strike which will remain unconverted by skill mods.
E.g. scythe of tenebris 100% physical/chaos conversion on EoR will actually not convert soulfire’s physical damage.
In other words, @klasperstanze - your understanding is spot on.
@klasperstanze, @BOG: AFAIK, all skill nodes which read something along the lines of “will damage other enemies in addition to the primary target” all adhere to this rule of remaining unaffected by transmutors.
E.g. - torrent, explosive strike, nightfall, soulfire
The rest of the skill-line like static strike and brimstone will, however, be affected by transmutor level modifiers.
And? ADCTH is calculated per projectile, and if each has less than 100% WD, it actually gets a penalty compared to “one-shot” skill with big damage.
I didnt know that, maybe, because i didt used those skills.
Then it depends on particular skill’s mechanics.
Brimstone also "damages other enemies in addition to the primary target”…
You misunderstand me.
Let’s compare untransmuted 26/16 PB vs 26/16 cadence
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Cadence does 500% WD, but your adcth is capped @ 100%
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26/16 PB fires 6 projectiles, each dealing 84% WD. Since each projectile will apply adcth, you effectively gain 84% * 6 = 504% WD worth of adcth
Another example would be iskandra’s TSS which adds 40% WD per projectile.
This means you’ll adcth for 120% WD with each TSS cast.
This is why I wonder if mala may have made a mistake. Because if he’s right, there is a huge power gap between shotgun skills vs non-shotgun skills.
Only on ranged. It’s a specific modifier to ranged attacks.
Projectiles dont “apply” ADCTH. ADCTH is percentage, based on damage dealt. Cadence would deal much more damage in 1 hit, those leeching more too.
Ok. How do you explain transmuted PB’s lifesteal then?
Also: I assume that item mods to skills behave the same.
ie. an item mod giving %WD to a skill makes that an “intrinsic %WD” skill as does an item adding %adcth to a skill.
For example, AAR could have both mods via items (conduit, offhand, etc.)
Twin Fangs proc was just a simple and common example for the discussion.
You are correct about shotgun lifesteal, at least if the rule we know - global adcth applies only to %WD and caps at 100% - is correct.
But if it’s applied to the skill flat as well then idk. How does that even work? Caps at 100%WD and doesn’t cap for any flat? doesn’t make any sense and doesnt correspond to the experience such as pathetic steal on FS.
I think the easier way to “test” it would be to watch performance of different straightforward builds in Crucible and track their steal. Only WD and WD+flat is a huge difference, you would tell pretty easily which one is correct based on the dps*adcth you see on the screen.
I wish malawiglenn was still around so I could ask him because this is the first time I’ve ever heard of this.
I miss that dude. He was a little ragey at times, but is a good guy.
Assuming you have 100% adcth, and 100% WD is truly the hard-cap on adcth, you can only adcth for a maximum of 100% of your the flat damage on the skill line.
That’s messy because of buffs/debuffs/mutators
I was going to suggest training dummy, but it has 500% life leech res.
Actually, I was wondering if the 2 effects (%WD adcth, %adcth) stack. If they are stacking modifications to a spell, then 100% would be the cap. If calculated in isolation, a spell could have over 100% effective adcth.
(Just a hypothetical mechanical that would never occur due to low numbers). If % is under 100, it’s a moot question as the result is the same.
Where did he go?..
Also very important question is how exactly does enemy LL res work on adcth. There is an Ugden golem with 95% res. Its tough to heal from it be its not 20 times tougher than regular mob. Also if you use null on it you would heal from it real fast.
There is Zantarin with LL immune, according to GT. We all know it’s not the case.
Same with bosses, most of them have 85% LL res. But its not 6 times harder to leech from them compared to regular mobs, it’s really not… A whole new layer of confusion. I was happier living in ignorance.
It works just like any other res would. You’re probably adcthing from it just fine because of sheer damage output.
I’m not sure about that anymore. Maybe there is some weird interaction cause of percentage base of adcth.
The problem is most skills are similar in terms of WD: some WD and some flat. There is no spamming skill with only WD or likewise with miserable WD and huge flat. So we all just empirically know that 10-15% adcth is “fine”. Not many bother with math behind it.
Blade arc. Just don’t level laceration.
AAR with conduit modifier
@banana_peel: I’ve actually tested fire AAR with conduit modifier using spellshock tome. As far as I can tell, adcth was only ever noticeable when ghoul was up.