+1 to parking bosses, but without the need to actually suicide for it.
No from me. This will will move the SR one step further to being just a stats checks with no strategy involved. I do not see how it would be possible to face tank several nemesis at S75 for any auto attack/spells spam with low armor.
Before FG was released I hopped that SR would be less of stats check then crucible allowing more for skill, like the main game but significantly more difficult due balancing around endgame gear. Instead the opposite happened. This would make it even worse.
Dunno if I agree with you mate. How many builds can facetank aleksansers meteor while surrounded by mobs? As someone who is constantly dodging them green meatballs in naked runs, I can tell you it adds a lot to your clear time.
Every time you move, you are unlikely to attack the same target you were attacking previously. Especially if the target was aleksander, and is he/she refuses to blink to you
Is it really that surprising, though? Now, I do thing the discussion is interesting, but frankly, your proposed solution is extreme. Let me illustrate what it looks like from another perspective. We agree that SR feels very RNG-dependent, I don’t think anyone disagree. Just throwing numbers, SR difficulty, for the same build and at the same Shard level, can be ranged from 1 to 10, 1 being the case where you roll mutators that don’t negatively impact your build, got good shrines on the way, with an easy boss combination, and in a big boss room, and 10 when everything is horrendous, bad mutators, no shrines, atrocious bosses, and one of the infamous two circles of death as boss room.
Now, your proposal is basically to have SR difficulty range from 8 to 10. While it is undeniable that it would be more consistant, RNG-wise, it’s also totally skewed toward the highest end of difficulty.
I’ll be frank, fighting 1-2 bosses, then finishing the 1-2 bosses remaining is not that epic, because you can’t really use your build to its fullest that way, you have to limit yourself to a small portion of the arena. So I do agree that the current randomness is a bit “meh”, and probably too much dependent on the boss room.
But your proposal would basically turn every boss room into the tiniest ones. If anything, I’d rather have these tiniest rooms removed, and have the RNG be limited to 4-6 on a 10 point scale.
This is why I hate fighting the Duskreaper in a small boss room. Nowhere to run, he stays in the middle of the room, just adding his attacks to what you have to endure fighting the other bosses. He’s chilling in the middle, you can’t outrace him, and if you try to focus him, good luck with all the other bosses wailing at you, and he packs quite a bit of health, it’s just tedious. And there are others boss and Nems (Kubacabra, Kaisen, …) that are not really designed to be fought in such a tiny space, and transform the Shard in pure stat check.
But this discussion will have to wait for after the patch, since we don’t really know how it’ll impact the RNG. I’m…cautiously optimistic, even if I agree that one of the more important factor is the Boss room, and with it the possibility/impossibility to pull bosses separatly.
How is it “aggro abuse”? Pulling strategically is a tactic, and has been years and years. If the entire map was meant to aggro on generation, it would… but, they don’t. Anymore than non-boss maps don’t entirely aggro on the player at generation.
Being able to pick your fight and successfully limit what you are dealing with at a given moment is strategy, not abuse. Unless it’s a matter of subverting the developers intent for how the encounter (boss room) is actually supposed to work.
Exactly.
Usual case of “cannot please all the people all the time” combined with the people that want to play differently demanding that everyone has to play the way they want. In other words Life As Normal 
Full saying… You can please some of the people all of the time, all the people some of the time, but you can never please all the people all the time
All good points. If you want full aggro just bravely run forward. Otherwise a lot of builds will be fucked. Melee are fucked already.
Relax, man. It’s just a debate. I apologize if you find my sorry attempts at humor uncalled for. But my point stands. There is a cheesable tactic that every player uses now. It became a defining factor of the game. Disregarding this by saying “but you don’t have to use it” is exactly like disregarding the oupiedness of warlords by saying “but you don’t have to play them.”
How is tiptoeing ten pixels at a time and hoping only one if them will aggro a strategy? This a textbook definition of video game cheese. It’s not strategically picking your fights, cleverly manipulating the battlefield conditions and being war-wise like Sun Tsu. It’s cheesing nems by making microsteps and checking the minimap if any of them moves.
I yield with the “all aggro at once.” Apparently, people love their numbers too much, and having to play at 55 instead of 75 is too much to ask. Even though 55 and 75 are generally identical in content and gameplay. Only the number is different.
But seriously, this is cheese. And its straight-up rng. Basing the game’s meta on rng cheese - unhealthy.
@ya_: meaning no offense or disrespect, brother - but id love to hear your 2 cents worth on my perspective of abusing enemy A.I stupidity.
On one hand, I think you’ve raised very compelling points, on the other I fail to see why it’s okay in some situations but not in others.
Please clarify how you’d “strategically” deal with a practically unavoidable 50% fumble or with Kuba’s blood pools. For a melee attacker, there’s no way to fight Grava, Kuba, Slathsarr, or a boatload of other bosses without brute-forcing through their debuffs, which simply doesn’t work when all of them are compounded on top of each other. That’s not to mention several SR boss rooms, which are tiny and completely flat to remove any value from maneuvering or funneling opponents. There are no battlefield conditions to manipulate in this situation.
I’d prefer if they fixxed aggro in general.
Because things like Alex arches, making Reaper chase you around Kuba or locking mobs down in corridors and SR aggro abuse are not the same thing.
Because when cheese becomes the only way to play a game it can be catastrophic for the game in the long term. If SR is meant to be played by soloing bosses - so be it. Make it a thing. Position the bosses so that the always aggro one by one. All this tiptoeing and RnG 1) is kinda comical when you know thousands of players are performing this shit like a mantra (including me), 2) makes it hard to review builds based on merit. (sr+) (vid) tags really mean very little right now.
I don’t care if threshold of doable shards raises or falls. To me it’s just a number. My point is to make it stable and consistent.
Damn. You almost make me regret voting for that “no.”
Almost.
I suppose at the end of the day it’s the same thing as my complicated relationship with crucible. I think buffs/banners are cheesy, and so I do naked runs.
Maybe you can become the “balls-2-the-wall” SR pilot 
As someone who played Anarchy Online for a loooong time I don’t even think it is lame to pull enemies one by one by finding the sweet spot. That’s the way I pulled one Heckler that was almost standing in another one (taking one step after the other, clsogin in), to the amazement of my team mate, so wie could duo them one by one. Actually in those situations they liked to send me off pulling them.
So that is pretty normal to me, because those mobs where almost certain wipe if you pulled more than one. But man, they gave sweet XP.
So I’ll go with the “no” as I like strategy and picking enemies way more than just being thrown into an arena with an “Let’s see if you can take it” attitude and no real strategical options. That would need a complete boss room redesign, so you actually have options, other than facing the storm and hoping to be standing in the end. More or less you’d need to move the Crucible arenas over to the SR boss rooms.
IMHO it is more like “Why going through ten waves in crucible, where you can just run from spawn to spawn… Spawn all ten waves at once, all aggroing at once”. I am all for more strategy and “pixel pulling” is just what this old fart is used to in old MMORPGs. 
Buffs and banners are alright. B/b crucible and naked crucible are to me like two different game modes. Also, 1) They are constant. No RNG. 6:10 with buffs and banner is 6:10 with buffs and banner. 2) There’s transparency. You can’t use buffs and pretend like you don’t (or can you, Spanks…? ;))
If aggro abuse isn’t fixed, maybe in the future some people will - just like now we got naked crucible and b/b crucible - divide SR results into AA and non-AA.
So lots of players wanna see Benny trap their helpless characters, at the same time Slathsarr and Alex rain shit on them,
following up Grava’s tracking projectiles burst as finishing touch.
What a perfect day in SR. A fat no for me.
As many players mentioned above, anyone wants a leap of faith, by all means charging at them.
10000% agree. That global design of SR seems like a defensive check and gives no room for strategy, positioning, smart moves etc. in boss stages. I really like the normal stages unfortunately. Then, it’s only a defensive stats check that hinders too many builds. The only room that has some beginning of strategy is the lava one: walls to hide, tight and open spaces, ways to aggro and unaggro, some damaging lava on the floor. The tiny one in the sand is just a prayer to have a manageable combo.
Happened to me yesterday. I just gave up and reset.
I will maintain my stance that all we need is a single, Uber version of boss for SR boss rooms and additional randomized abilities/modifiers. Dual or triple bosses should be a rare occurrence.
Thats it, thats all we need to solve the current “impossible cancer combos” or the aggro abuse problems.
It might be a good idea to split vanilla and AoM/FG nemesis into different spawn pools, because the vanilla guys are all WAY easier than any of the others. That’d go a long way to smoothing out the difficulty.
What you call cheese another will call strategy. Not everyone wants to be aggroed by all of the boss at once.
I am torn between no and yes because one gives players choice but at the same time I am not a fan of how long it takes to climb SR and pulling 1 at a time makes SR easier but longer.
I think no is most reasonable though. I think there should be more of a difference between crucible and SR (aside from the lovely maps) in terms of gameplay. Being swarmed by boss is a signature feature of a crucible arena mode, but having nice large maps only to then be cramped in a boss room in SR doesn’t make sense to me. I’d rather the “boss” level of SR just be a large map but with more purple boss and Nem.