[Mod] Central GD-Zenith Thread

Terror Knight[ul]
[li]Always been thematically strong, and powerful. Not a whole lot to change on this one with the possible exception of adding the new Retaliation to Damage stat to a skill or two. Perhaps Gore? Seems appropriate. Also seems like a decent fit for an Eye of Reckoning-type ability.[/li]
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Elementalist[ul]
[li]Super powerful. Always loved the ability to convert to a single elemental with such ease. Never been a fan of ice wall, but it’s existence doesn’t offend me. Might be able to fit some elemental retaliation on Elemental Armor so that other masteries can make use of it with the Retaliation to Damage.[/li]
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Outrider[ul]
[li]Mastery that I spent the least amount of time on, so not much feedback here, other than to say I really am not a fan of the Barricade skill. Doesn’t really seem to do much and in some places, it just looks weird. (minor complaint)[/li]
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Crusader[ul]
[li]Another mastery which seems to be suitable for the Retaliation to Damage stat. Another really powerful mastery.[/li]
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Riftstalker[ul]
[li]Another mastery which i don’t play often. It’s a shame, too, because the theme is really nice.[/li]
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Necrotic[ul]
[li]Always felt like its missing a skill or two. Since Necrotic has Malice, I wouldn’t be disappointed if a skill or two gained Retaliation to Damage. The Ray is suuuuper fun, once you have the ability to maintain it.[/li]
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Misc.[ul]
[li]While I believe a lack of true pets is an intentional one, I am a little disappointed that not ones exists. Huge summoning fanatic and would be nice to mix it up a little. Good chance you won’t want that change that, and that’s cool :)[/li]
[li]Great mod! Thanks![/li]
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Off the top of my head, some things that people have PM’d me regarding bugs and stuff over the past couple weeks:

*Barricade doesn’t work
*Ice wall doesn’t work
*Fervent Force doesn’t stack properly
*Might of Magic has a limit of 1 “projectile”, you can’t cast a new one until that projectile expires.
*Cooldown reduction on non-exclusive skills is way strong when paired with other masteries that have any source of cooldown reduction.

Riftstalker

  • This mastery deserves the new teleport skill with at least a 20m distance.Maybe the base skill could be a teleport skill without area damage and then you could make a modifier to increase wave distance, reduce cooldown or mana cost.You could also add a transmuter to add a radius area damage and increase mana cost or cooldown.

Terror Knight

  • Entropic reign cooldown reduction should be reduced maybe to reach 15-20% at max level.I think I was able to reach +36 % cooldown reduction with this buff alone (with +all skills items).When you reach near 100% CDR things become absurd, I was able to spam invulnerable skill + Evocation of Terror so it didn’t matter that I was always at 1HP. Also Evocation of Terror FX might be changed but this is not really important.
  • If you reduce CDR reduction on Entropic reign, you should also reduce Evocation of Terror cooldown.

Outrider

  • Concussive blast cooldown should be reduced, I think to match Olexra flash freeze

Item skills modifiers
If you have time it would be interesting to create a few items with skill modifiers for zenith masteries skills.It could be legendary items or new affixes.

Other than ‘hooray!’

My biggest issue is with Riftstalker’s teleport sometimes causing the player char to get stuck (ded :/) or disappearing into the scenery (if I remember correctly opening a personal rift resolves it). Otherwise that class is heaps of fun.

Haven’t played it for a while but will definitely fire it up again if updated.

Personally, I noticed a bug with the Riftstalker’s Warp skill a couple weeks ago. I am not sure what causes it, but occasionally the character completely vanishes and is unable to attack or use other skills; the only way to fix it without exiting is to open a rift and click on, then the character reappears. If you don’t do that, you just die, unable to attack or move away from enemies.

If you use nothing but warp for about 45 minutes then it will likely happen; it seems to happen more often in big swarms of enemies so maybe it has something to do with teleporting to a tile that an enemy is moving in to, but I am really not sure, was never able to exactly pin-point it myself.

If you are playing standalone zenith with FG… That’s your issue. It hasn’t been updated to accommodate for the new animations for movement skills.

How does one go about getting +skill levels for these classes? Are they in the drop pool for all items or specific NPC?

I’m not sure there are any +skills items for Zenith classes in this standalone version. In Grimarillion there are craftable greens and a few vanilla items with modified class bonuses.

This has happened to me many times before FG, and happened with the first mob I hit after trying it with FG.

So if I have 10 points in Outrider’s Arcane Assault 1, do I only need 1 point in Arcane Assault 2 for the second rifle to have the same scaling as the first? If so, what is the point of having 10 points in Arcane Assault 2?

EDIT:
Also, is this graphic error intended? https://gyazo.com/56994d91cf4dd4cdaf4dc82d00aa9277

Would like to chuck in my opinion as someone who played DAIL/Grimarillion for a long time, have played Zenith specs a fair bit (espec. Terror Knight) and have done some light modification to the specs when creating my own personal modpacks (usually together with 3J’s cataclysm specs).

OVERALL:
Zenith has fallen into an odd place in terms of Gameplay within Grimarillion. The specs used to be the go to for me, but recent work on D3 and GQ specs made them really satisfying and modern, and left Zenith specs feeling a bit clunky. In terms of overall design, I think there is a bit too much power in the raw stats from the mastery bar (Retal in Champion, ADCTH in Necrotic, CDR in Rift especially), that removes so much room for power in the abilities themselves and leaves it feeling a bit irrelevant where you put your actual points.
In addition to this, a lot of the specs have some really fun and unique abilities, but they just sit out on their own with no synergies or transmuters, removing the great feeling of building upon the ability as you progress, or options for customisation when combining specs or different damage profiles. Necrotic has 7 ABILITIES which have no transmutes or synergies, making it feel really bare and underwhelming, only compensated for by the fact that the raw stats available or incredibly overtuned. The Zenith combination abilities look and feel great, and were an awesome idea, but I honestly sorta feel that given that the mod is predominantly used in combination in Grimarillion, that the abilities could be moved into the main tree, maybe some as Exclusive Skills. And on the note of Exclusives, I feel like big exclusives, especially multiple to allow for different playstyles, at the end of the trees are sorely missed in all the Zenith specs and would help a lot with power budgeting.

TERROR KNIGHT:
Terror Knight is a really well designed mastery, it’s thematically awesome and just feels so perfect to play and build around. In my opinion, it just suffers from being too good. Especially in the context of Grimmest in Grimarillion where most people use it, it just has everything. Personally I was consistently tuning it down, as when I played multiplayer and friends used it, they just did everything and made it no fun for everyone else. The bottom bar alone, especially [Suit Up], is just so ridiculously good that it eats up a huge amount of power budget on it’s own. [Soldier of Madness] could probably afford to be an exclusive skill given the +1 to all skills on it, the CDR from Entropic should be brought down significantly. Maybe some of the bottom line bonuses could be moved into [Suit Up], and some or all of the ADCTH could be moved to ER or SoM?
[Engage] could probably be completely removed (Or replaced with the Grip from Necro+TK synergy) and it’s synergies moved elsewhere given the availability of movement abilities external of masteries now, the thematic of a slow moving dreadnought that [Suit Up] implies kinda goes out the window when you add a charge ability. The weapon swing abilities feel AWESOME, although [Carnivorous Slaughter] also feels a bit overtuned on its own.
Other than that, maybe removing more of the Life Leech in favour of other damage sources as it’s a very aged stat, maybe a few transmuters to allow more options for gameplay, or maybe one of the new bladestorm abilities thrown in, and the spec is great.

ELEMENTALIST:
Elementalist is a really cool concept, the idea of being able to control your damage split between the elemental transmuters, turning any other spec combination into Full Fire, full lightning, or just a dead even split, is SUPER cool and feels great. The idea of dumping mana and then refueling is also interesting, although in practice it doesn’t always work out to be particularly effective.
I feel the actual abilities don’t always feel that fun to build around, particularly [Stormbolt], [Stormcaller], [Rupture], and [Sprite], and can feel a little clunky, but that might just be my personal preference.

CHAMPION:
The idea of a pure retaliation juggernaut is awesome, and feels great SOMETIMES. [Battery] always felt a bit lackluster, but the retal->damage stat could be EXACTLY what this ability, and the entire spec in general, needs to feel great.
Again, this spec suffers from a lot of cool abilities just sitting out with no transmuters or synergies, and a lot of them just don’t really make sense to the concept. The mastery bar is also RIDICULOUSLY strong, especially early, making the actual skills/masteries feel really weak in comparison to just pumping the bar. It could also really use some exclusives at the end to make it feel interesting.
I don’t really have specific suggestions beyond that atm (Although I’m playing through as a Champion now so maybe soon!), but I’d love to see maybe some incentive to play a retal character with a big 2h rather than shield, like in the picture?

OUTRIDER:
Again, cool concept, gun and board. Synergies are done well. A lot of cool and interesting stuff here. [Arcane Assault] being a major source of power is really bad imo, it’s an interesting concept, but in practice the gun just gets stuck on shit, can’t get around Line of Sight, and is generally just annoying to play with. I don’t think it really needs to exist, and there’s enough here to make a fun and interesting spec without it. I also think [Barricade] is another ability that sounds interesting, but in reality is just annoying and clunky and should just go. Again, that might just be my preference. Some exclusives, and/or some of the combo masteries put into the main tree, and this could be a great spec.

NECROTIC:
Cool idea, cool damage profile, cool auras. Active abilities feel terrible, sparse, and not really thematic. Leech grenade is just weird, feels like it doesn’t belong. WAY too much power in the mastery bar, feels like I’d be picking this spec just to pick up a few auras/passives and mastery bar stats, which is always a bad sign. Needs a lot more abilities with synergies/transmuters, needs just more in the tree in general, and the rest needs to be toned down a little. I really want to like this spec, it just doesn’t have a lot going for it.

RIFTSTALKER:
Admittedly, have hardly touched this spec, but from my brief exploration within it, it just feels all over the place. None of it flows particularly well or is particularly interesting. Chaos as a damage profile has been left behind and should be moved away from. A lot of room for Aether to be built upon with other damage sets too though. There is probably room for an Aether bladestorm here, though, [Caedra’s Collapse] is a cool concept too. CDR from the mastery bar should definitely go, that is WAY too strong. I don’t want to say too much else on this, though, as I’ve barely played it, and it doesn’t fit my playstyle in general so it could just be me.

On the whole, I do want to say that you did some great work on this mod, it feels great in some places now, and it definitely FELT great in the past, especially in DAIL days. It just needs a bit of work to feel modern now that other specs it’s usually packed with are so fun and competitive, especially with Asylum’s outstanding work on the GQ masteries. I feel like now is the time to bring it up to date, and I’d be happy to help in any way I can if you’re interested.

Hi, in TerrorKnight, the Whispers of Madness sound effect drives my groupmate crazy especially after it chains to many enemies in a pack. He describes it as taking over his sound effects, and I’ll admit it kind of does on my end as well. I’ve basically abandoned the skill entirely because it was making him not want to play. Please turn down the volume on that skill.

Thanks for the feedback to those that have given it! All of it is being considered in earnest. Sadly the forum rollback seems to have deleted some stuff in this thread, but I think I accomplished what I needed to from what had been given then.

It’s been about a month since I last announced I was returning to the mod (time sure flies, huh?) and while I have been hard at work in getting Zenith more up-to-snuff with the rest of its crew in Grimarillion, I will say I’ve put it on the backburner for the next few days while I try to (re)make some modding tools that I feel will greatly help with Zenith development…as well as a few other mods here and there that I’ve had in mind.

TL;DR, sorry for the apparent silence, but an update is coming and, if time flies like it has been, it’ll be here before you know it!

I’m curious to see what you brew up in the new version of your masteries!

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Will there be any new masteries? :stuck_out_tongue:

New ones? No :tm: but updates to existing masteries are on their way!

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It seems that Strategem of the Vagabond (Necrotic+Outrider skill) isn’t converting Vitality damage to Acid as it says it should. Could you please confirm? Thank you!

Why are there no pet support from Zenith Classes? Love playing summoners.

And the Bulwark of the Archmage seemed very weak when compared to Forcewave and especially Obsidian Tremors.

Afaik Ceno doesn’t like summoner playstyle sooo he didn’t design a mastery he didn’t want to play.

Exactly this. I don’t like Pets, and I don’t like how they have a different stat system from players, so Zenith will never feature anything to do with them. The closest you’ll see is stuff like Arcane Assault or Army of None.

I’ll take a look at Bulwark, thanks!

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