Sentries seem to be in a good place now (at least at max level, probably going to need re-balancing again when you start adding items that add +skills, if you do that) at max level with ~200% pet damage they are easily clearing mobs (roughly same speed as a mortar trap however they need 3/4 shots where mortar need 1) and is no longer OP against bosses. When you have multiple ones out still take bosses down fast however with energy cost bosses have time to kill you before you have enough out to shred them. So yeah sentries appear to be at a pretty good spot now for normal and going by the numbers and my estimations they are still going to hold up well in higher difficulties as you get more pet damage (which is really easy with Shepards Crook)
Good job!!
New issue though Incendiary Sentry and Sentry Imitation are both 1 point wonders.
With Incendiary Sentry drop the range down to 1 or 2 metres and have it scale with level to the range of 11, as it is now you only need 1 point fr the proc machine it is and at 600 energy its somewhat easy to abuse. Doing it this way may only encourage people to put into maybe 6-8 points but that is more then fair due to massive energy cost by then.
Sentry Imitation ether needs OA% removed for the first 4 levels or dropped down to 2-5% and then scaled up. 24% is just WAY WAY WAY too much for 1 point, honestly that is a 16 point worth investment for 24% OA and the energy drain does not make up for it especially with the attack speed boost and crit damage boost.
In DAIL (Engi 1.2 I guess) it seems that lifesteal and flat damage bonuses don’t apply to unarmed attacks with your skill. Is it still true in new versions?
Haven’t tried unarmed, but does it work with shield?
This build made me think really hard about second class combo because
if I choose ranged skills which are mostly elemental, I’ll have to invest in spirit and physique. I’m not sure what class will work with this. Ranger, Demo, Arcanist, or Shaman?
If I choose unarmed which are mostly physical and fire damage, I’ll have to invest in cunning and physique. Not sure what class will work with this unless shield works with unarmed then I can play Cenobite.
If nothing else, I can skip unarmed and ranged and go for full pet build with any other pet class.
I do like the idea of having the range of the flamer scale. I agree that it is a bit too good with one point.
As for sentry imitation’s %OA, I just looked a bit more at how it scales. The skill is definitely supposed to make you a bit of a crit machine, but I noticed the diminishing returns on OA are a bit heavier than I expected. Going to post some data for crit chance with one point -> all points:
(Level 10) 10% -> 15%
(Level 35) 11% -> 20%
(Level 70) 15% -> 25%
So OA seems to scale strangely, and I’m not sure what to do with it. I wish I could just give flat crit chance bonuses but that doesn’t seem to be something that exists. Scaling it to a similar end point with much lower initial bonus seems to be the smartest route to me.
Good catch noticing that. Looks like unarmed very much something Crate didn’t account for / develop heavily enough to work like other “weapons.” Several things straight up don’t work with it, and it appears that all forms of weapon bonuses are a part of that list. Gives a little bit more incentive to look into creating “unarmed” weapons to place in your weapon slots. That would likely fix at least that problem, but that would require some absolute maaagic. I’ll look into it. Eventually.
Shields and offhands DO work with unarmed. Opens up some really really strange doors to weird builds.
I noticed that two SSS turrets have DoT damage so I tried to find any devotion skills that boost to all pets damage that can affect DoT like burn or electrocute damage and there are none. I don’t know if All Damage works with DoTs.
Then there is III turret that does fire damage AND burn damage. All Damage pet devotion skills and fire damage will work on III turret, but not both SSS turrets that rely on DoTs.
Are you going by level or OA amount? because at 3000 OA you have like 30% crit chance (not sure how much it actually is as I’ve never been that high looking at build with that amount though they are always critting) and with only 100 OA bonus between gear and devotion it is already pushing me to over 1000 OA at level 40(haven’t paid attention to my crit rate but I can say it seems like every 4th hit is a crit) so with a little more OA on gear it would easily sky rocket to 3500/4000 at high level if not more.
Or to put it another way 24% OA is equivalent to Inner focus maxed out plus a pure OA focus from devotion of at least 30 devotion points.
The amount of OA it offers is way too much (I said this in the beginning before I even tried it out) and the massive crit multiplier and attack speed boost just makes this so grossly over powered, I mean Nemisis bosses wont even be able to look at you before dropping dread.
24% OA should be the final level of the skills, and yes it should start at a much lower level and scale up to the 24%.
Good catch noticing that. Looks like unarmed very much something Crate didn’t account for / develop heavily enough to work like other “weapons.” Several things straight up don’t work with it, and it appears that all forms of weapon bonuses are a part of that list. Gives a little bit more incentive to look into creating “unarmed” weapons to place in your weapon slots. That would likely fix at least that problem, but that would require some absolute maaagic. I’ll look into it. Eventually.
Have you said Asylum a message asking him how he did it in TQ? because as I said I’m sure it should more or less be the same for GD as it is the same engine and tools
Total pet damage works on all pet damage including the burn damage, just doesn’t show up in the tool tip, it also increases the damage of whatever devotion you assign to the turrets
I’m not sure how this works in Grimdawn but maybe simply adding 100%weapon damage to that unarmed skill would do the trick? In worst case it will also add shield damage to the skill but that can be balanced
The skill already has %weapon damage goes, 30/50/60/70/100% or something along those lines, problem is you don’t have a weapon equipped and fists don’t appear to be counted as a weapon.
It would only consider shield damage if it was tagged to.
Did some more testing. Normal fist default attack does use lifesteal and item flat damage bonuses.
I also tested how Savagery works compared to your skill.
Savagery has scaling %weapon damage that is not affected by charges. Only lighting damage and bleeding are related to its charges.
Your skill’s charges seem to be related to total output damage and not the “attack bonuses” it gives (phys damage and internal damage) - might be why the DPS in character sheet doesn’t change with charges (it does for savagery).
My idea would be to give it static 100%weapon damage and tie the charges to phys and internal damage (like it is done for lighting and bleed in Savagery).
Is there something like “when used as default attack” tag (both savagery and cadence say smt like that), maybe it has to be added to the skill.
I think it’s working fully as intended after adding the 100% weapon damage. Yeah, it always just affected the physical and trauma damage because weapon damage wasn’t a part of the skill. I don’t know exactly how Savagery works, but I think everything works fairly well now.
As far as I could tell, flat bonuses were not working. I made one of my passives add like 10000 damage for a sec to test it, and it only worked with unarmed after I added the 100% weapon damage. Will be in next patch.
Savagery Weapon damage scaling is based on charges…
The fist skill is built the exact same way as Savagery, it’s a copy paste from what I can tell, only difference is the bonuses are changed to physical.
The “when used as default attack” tag is already applied, the skill is Savagery just reskinned.
Giving it a static 100% weapon damage won’t change anything because fists are not considered weapons.
BTW this isn’t my mod, nor am I a modder let alone the maker of this mod
I am merely a vocal person based on my experience plus I have gone through and tested/read a lot of different modders failures and successes.
So while I don’t have the slightest clue as to how use the modding tools I do have a pretty good understanding of how modders make things work and what they do to make it work, because as I said I read through a lot of what they post
No, it isn’t. The weapon damage% is the same no matter how many charges you have, any difference in damage between charges you see is because of getting larger flat damage bonuses from those charges, increasing your base weapon damage that the weapon damage% of the skill works off of. That is not at all the same as the actual percent of weapon damage the skill uses.
Did they change it then? I haven’t used it in ages but it used to scale weapon% based on charge.
And when i did use it, it didn’t increase just because of the flat bonuses the weapon component definitely went up, damage increased to much for the small flat increases when testing it with little to no damage multipliers.
If not then I guess I am wrong and need to go back over everything I’ve read to relearn and understand…
I take back what I said about understanding in that case…
Edit: Grim Calc is showing it how I remember it to be with the scaling weapon%…
Another thing that should be added to balance the Incendiary Sentry is to make the sentry itself use it’s energy to attack, or turn it’s attack into a 3 second burst with a 0.5-1 second cool down.
After you finish getting the sentries balanced I might start giving suggestions on melee skills seen I’m just about to hit elite difficulty with my ranged sentry build.
Btw there appears to be no issues with the Shockstick attack seems perfectly balanced
Taking some advice, messing with some skills, the usual. Trying to find a happy-place for flamer balance.
I’m also taking a look at the Safe Space again. I personally find myself rarely wanting to invest in it. Any opinions on the electrocute damage it does? I find it to be not quite (AKA not nearly) enough to be worthwhile. Thinking about having it scale up to about 1600 damage over 3 seconds instead of the measly 750 over 3 seconds it currently does at max level. Testing as we speak and I’m feeling pretty happy with it.
That’s way too powerful I have it at 14 points 690 damage over 3 seconds and can drop it and it will kill entire hoards on its own only things it can’t kill on its own are commanders and hulks but it still takes significant health off of them, if anything it needs a nerf.
I can have it up every single fight and be in almost no danger only way I die is if I do something wrong (17.3second cool down 13.5second duration)
And that’s with only 163% pet damage
How are you finding it too weak?
Only way I ever die is if I do something stupid it’s that powerful
1600 is too high imo especially with the safety it provides
As I suggested flamer needs either an energy cost so it isn’t spewing 24/7 or spew flames in 3seconds bursts with 0.5-1second cooldown, on the attack not the skill
Ignore Safety Labels it’s extremely easy to offset the health drain with devotion and gear, is there anyway to set health reserved like you can with energy? Handy Gadgets (couldn’t be bothered writing entire name sorry sorry to say but this buff is completely and utterly useless for 2 reasons:
Cooldown is way to long
Having beyond 100%attack/cast speed is useless due to speed caps on pets and it’s easy enough to get speed from gear devotion and passive.
I never use mods, since they usually lack the polishing given by the developers themselves and rarely fits the lore.
But you, sir. Damn. I already consider this mod as a part of the game. And I’m not even kidding. Really hope to see The Engineer as a mastery when the expansion comes out. Would love to see you working on Crate, also.
I tested the speed caps for pets to make sure it worked, and was surprised that it did. I tested +5000% cast speed and it was significantly faster than +100% or even +500%. Not sure if the same goes for standard attack speed, but I’m overall still not happy with the hands-free skill. Shame I had to replace the passive version. I’ll think of something.
Regarding the Ignoring Safety Labels skill, I’m looking into making it harder to offset the drain. I feel like it should be possible to out-regen this one, but not easy.
You’re too kind. No, seriously, I think you might actually be too kind. I definitely put a lot of effort into making up relatively believable lore, but I don’t think what I made is “you should work with the developers”-worthy. Nonetheless, it’s nice to hear such high praise!
Aaaaand 1.5! Check the main post for updated download links.
Power Palms now works with flat bonus damage and such. Preserving the scaling was extremely awkward, but I don’t think I broke anything.
Flamer’s range now scales, and does slightly less damage.
Imitate Sentry’s %OA is now less nuclear.
Safe space scaling has been changed. Starts with lower damage, Scales higher, cooldown has been increased slightly.
Increased CD of Turf Turner.
Ignoring Safety Labels health drain has been changed a bit. Harder to out-regen it, but still probably possible.
Rework of Hands-Free skill. Again.
Invasive Internal Improvements has had its regen cut a bit.
Flamer is still 1 point wonder, there is still no reason to invest anymore points into it. Range needs to start of a hell of a lot lower and I still believe it needs to have a burst stream instead of a constant stream. Imitate Sentry is a lot better no longer 1 point wonder, still very useful with only 1 point but no longer OP. Safe Space was worried you were going to make it OP with the damage buff but thankfully you haven’t increased it as much as you said you were. Hands free, is looking a lot better now. Ignore Safety Labels is looking to be in an appropiate spot now regen is a lot harder to offset but not too hard given the Safe Spot Lessons Learned passive providing good regen allowing a little wiggle room for gear when taking devotion into consideration.
I’m trying to decide whether I start a new character and go melee with focus on flamer considering my current character, that is ranged and focusing on Sentry, just finished normal (currently doing hidden path) or stay this character and start elite…
