More sources of global pierce to cold conversion please

Grim Dawn Ideas and Feedback
1

Few observations for 1.1.9.1:

  1. We can easily convert most of pierce to vitality: Morgoneth’s helm + shoulders + ring. With high conversion rolls we can achieve even 100% conversion rate, but even without cherry-picking around 90% are easily achievable.

  2. We can easily achieve 80% pierce to fire conversion with just belt + gloves

  3. We have a good collection of global pierce to acid conversion sources.

With the above said, I find it unfair how difficult is to achieve a good rate of global pierce to cold conversion. It is especially needed for rune of Hagarrad and Nemesis relic pseudo-pet. At the moment we have good gloves (up to 29%), Alkamos rings (30% for both together, with average roll) and for top tier general purpose gear that is it. Sharpshooters can use M. Norrthern Wyrm, but other archetypes would need to use blue armor pieces if they want to achieve something close to 100%. Could we have more options please?

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2

Some sources that used to be on items previously were removed as the resulting builds proved to be too powerful. To paraphrase another poster: Pierce->Cold conversion is extremely volatile.

3

That skill was the reason to remove Pierce-to-Cold conversion from Ragrathar off-hand if I remember correctly :thinking:.

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I remember Chillwhisper Infiltrator coming up in a discussion with or just after the update for it. Pretty sure Silver Sentinel + Northern Wyrm with full Pierce->Cold conversion was offensively good as well going off of memory, it’s just squishy with the naturally low armour and not as much Physical resistance.

What probably tips the build over the edge is that Ragrathar’s Horn could get full Pierce->Cold conversion and off-hand CDR (compared to Northern Wyrm) before the conversion was replaced.

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5

A lot of skills in this game are ridiculously strong when converted to mono-type damage. And for example for blade spirits it resulted in adjusting their base damage, introducing point-blank etc. I remember similar adjustments for AAR, EoR etc. I don’t understand why for pierce-to-cold it should be something special.

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6

In test patch spectral swords have 45% average pierce to cold

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7

Just slap some on some underperforming / meme cold items and call it a day. Like Beacon of the Winter’s Veil, Herald of Amatok, Shadowspine Enforcer. Chillflame Evoker also comes to mind, but it might be considered “OP” by having both fire and pierce → cold on it. Whatever, I guess.

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I will begin at some point a list of each and every conversion in the game based on damage type and sorted as such. There are some gapping holes in them as it stands and I believe there should be none. I want 100% conversion possibilities from all damages to all damages MINUS of course bleeding (because). Even though some will argue that it will make things too OP, they are incorrect. Obviously adjustments can be made to such things IF and when the time arises. Are we to truly believe that a lack of imagination and freedom to build the character that we want is limited to some items lacking these conversions is due to the game needing “balance”… I do not, not for a second.

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43 / 5000

Well waste your time no one will listen to you

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I don’t believe the argument or developer vision is that doing this makes things “too OP”. I think it’s moreso that focused or localised conversions creates more uniqueness or reasons to pick up and use a specific item and that extends to global conversion, not just 100% conversion modifiers. Look at the Blood Orb of Ch’thon for one of them, or for partial conversions, Bladetwister Signet and Chosen Epaulets are valued on Pierce users for their Elemental->Pierce conversion.

On the flip side though, more conversions does create more options and possibilities for builds, there’s a bit of a balancing act here.

It could also be in the same ballpark as why every mastery does not support every damage type even though there are some oddballs in itemisation, e.g. Demolitionist supports Aether on a couple of items but doesn’t really support Acid with skills or skill modifiers. As much as I would like it to, I understand their reasoning here.

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11

isn’t it the same reason why acid->cold conversion isn’t abundant? Nightblade would just make things blow up?
heck we are losing a source of ele->pierce conversion for melee in next patch so we only have 2, because Nightblade was making things blow up…
aside from already existing builds, making Cold Dervish easily get 100% conversion i could maybe imagine making things real derp with divine mandate on top ?

not that i’m complaining, not getting 100% conversion on a bunch of builds kinda always bum me out a little,
but in cold/pierce cases it also often seemed to make sense with ex Nightblade power as excuse

12

Approaching such things in a vacuum is generally not a good idea.

It’s easy to look at similar skills/stats and state that they are imbalanced because one has better values than the other, but when you look at the complete package, it becomes apparent that there is a reason for what at first appears to be an oversight.

The same goes for conversion. In a game like Grim Dawn where hundreds of moving pieces are all interacting with each other, it is a daunting task to predict the domino effect of what might seem like an innocent effort to equalize conversion availability.

We are not infallible in this either, and we made mistakes in the past that we had to address.

Some conversions are inherently volatile because of how well they create synergies even within individual masteries or Devotion paths. Pierce/Cold in particular is one we’ve had to be very careful with in the past.

Balancing nightmare aside, that sounds rather boring, honestly. If you can make anything any damage type, where is the identity? It’s the same conundrum that arises from making every conversion/color available for every skill/archetype.

In theory, that sounds like you would have infinite possibilities and variety, but in practice you’re just switching color palettes.

The nuance of figuring out where each damage type excels is gone.

This deserves a gif.

giphy

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13

What exactly do you want that conversion for? What build? RoH?

14

I don’t have anything certain in my mind, just several factors observed throughout years of experience. They are:

At least initially, before introducing 3-masteries sets in FG, the game design suggested a lot of damage type innate pairs seemingly supposed/allowing to build around both of them simultaneously: cold+pierce, chaos+fire, aether+fire, chaos+vit, vit+acid, acid+cold, aether+lightning, aether+vitality, fire+lightning, cold+lightning. These pairs are supported in a lot of skills (included common resist reductions), gear (including many sets) and devotions.

However, quite early community understood that this way of building is typically not most effective and it is much better to go to one damage type. Another one is either becomes a secondary supportive damage type (like vitality in Clairvoyant AAR spellbinder through Rattosh) or completely converted to the main one. There are still rare exceptions of viable equally focused 2-type builds, but they are really rare. And in 2021 for literally all of the mentioned pairs, or almost all, we have various ways of complete conversion of one type to another … except pierce to cold. :pensive:

At the same time, here and there we face artifacts of this innate (sharp ice shards…) pierce+cold pair: chillspikes on Seal of Night, proc on Soulrend, rune of Hagarrad, Nemesis pseudo-pet, Vengeance relic proc, Blade Spirits skill, Deathmark set and set proc. And so on and so forth. For BS we have dedicated set with local conversion, Vengeance is used in both cold and pierce-oriented builds, Deathmark set maybe too (at least potentially). But in many described cases the item or skill is used only in cold builds and I find it strange that these builds can’t utilize 100% power of stuff intended specifically for them.

A while ago I had a Soulrend+Nemesis+Alkamos rings cold spellbreaker. It is already deleted for ages, but I remember how uncomfortable I felt being unable to utilize the Soulrend proc and nemesis base damage. And when I built Reaper, Level 100 (GD 1.1.8.1) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator , I was amazed how good the proc performs when converted to single damage type (this build literally does half of damage by pure-vital gear procs). And felt unfair once again that similar feel of perfection for cold is impossible or at least ridiculously hard to achieve.

Here were my reasons for the topic.

15

Yeah but 1) dmg types must differ, that includes conversion access 2) easy pierce to cold almost always breaks something, usually RoH, like it kinda did the recent pt update

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It is also a question of whether a build needs full conversion to be viable. I can understand the player OCD of having some excess Pierce sitting ontop of a Cold build that isn’t contributing much but it could very well be that the build’s damage has been finetuned with patches and updates in other places (e.g. skill modifiers) to account for not being able to fully convert it’s damage, thus full Pierce->Cold conversion is not needed.

17

I just want 100% conversion so I don’t have green fart clouds or random puffs of flame polluting my beautiful ice storms.

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