Need some advice on class choice

Grim Dawn Gameplay Discussion
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I am looking for a tanky class (primary criteria) with still reasonable damage (second criteria), I already have a pet conjurer so I wanted something different for a change.

So far I have considerd purifier, warder, commando and tactician, (battlemage is probably a candidate as well).

One might also consider that I do not have all the fancy gear yet, so classes that only work with very specific items are kinda off the table unless they work reasonably well without those, too.

Please don’t feel restricted by the classes I mentioned, I am open to everything, the more tanky the better.
Having a good skill for leveling up is also a plus, like word of pain from inquisitor is very convenient to say the least.

Would be cool if you could provide a short description of how the class/build would work (skills used, easily obtainable items used).

Thank you! :slight_smile:

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If you prefer some simpler questions, for me, it now basically burns down to:
commando or tactician?

Also I’d appreciate some advice on how to best lvl up a commando in case I insist on using 1h+shield instead of the simple 2h forcewave solution.
Both cadence and fire strike seem to be sub-par compared to a 2h forcewave for levelling…
Any ideas?

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if you go with shield use shield scaling skills, otherwise you waste the shield
cadence/firestrike and soldier wps doesnt’ scale on shield so there is little benefit there
Blitz or 1h FW would be an option, or getting a stat stick/“caster” shield and use whatever skills it can then boost (blade arc or retal/CS+VF)
or alternatively you got 1h forcewave, since it wont be entirely the same as 2h spam, letting you mix in other CD skills or a different spam
Either way you should get some regen by break-pointing VF and getting some points into Veterancy
*you generally dont’ need Menhir’s Bulwark on softcore and can just take the OA from Oleron, you’ll get plenty regen without

I don’t think i’d recommend 1h blade arc levelling as mando, it’s doable but 2h blade arc is probably better for the dmg gains.
If you go retal you could technically use nado for rata, but tbh it’s gonna be minimal gain compared to just stacking regular grenado items.

Cadence and Firestrike is fine for levelling but takes some levels to get rolling, and i wouldn’t do it with 1h+shield in either case, atleast not as commando if/when you don’t have shield offensive for support (smash/smite), and AA focus with blitz weaved in will mean either your AA gets secondary focus or your blitz does, in which case you waste the shield offence one way or another
You could stack a bunch of dmg tweaking Ceno’s Blitz-krieg for commando, focusing on Blitz, with Cadence as secondary to get more flats from deadly momentum, combined with the flats on Flametouched it should be some decent blitz dmg even if cadence is slowed.

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yea 1h forcewave is just so slow…
and spreading points thin on multiple skills does not feel good either,
I’d probably prefer fire strike over cadence for the AoE part anyways,
how about focusing points on the mortar trap and related skills?

edit: oh and what you mean by “Ceno’s Blitz-krieg for commando”? is that a popular build or something I should know?

edit2: and the bigger question still: what is more tanky, commando or tactician?

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Avenger Warder or Archon should suit you nicely. Warder has more tank while Archon is more damage oriented.

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If you can tolerate placing mines with arming time, I can also vouch for Rune of Kalastor/Forcewave Tactician. Pretty unique playstile, fairly good physical caster.

As for which one is more tanky - both have soldier as baseline, so that’s already solid survivability.

Commando will give you flashbang that makes enemies miss you more, and blast shield which is a good, but temporary damage absorption buff.

Tactician will give you a heal and a protective seal with damage absorption. It has theoretical 100% uptime. The downside is, you need to place that seal manually and stand in it, so kiting becomes a pain. Inquisitors are universally clunky because of that.

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yes, I am already considering the mobility aspect of the tactician…

I found laying runes with activation time rather not so much fun,
but levelling up anything with inquisitor is the best because of word of pain, so that’s covered,
and once that spell falls behind too much I’d go for FoI which has a easy to get MI with leech,
which goes well with the seal as you need to stand still for FoI as well.
One might also consider cadence with a ranged weapon and sprinkling points in all those abilities that can trigger on default attack, which inquisitor has even more than the soldier…

While commando has a variety of options, as I already said I might just go for mortar,
though going something with weapon damage does provide leech (devotion scales, items…) and will probably get me farther as long as I can find good weapons to use.

Anyways, I am still unsure what will be tankier, I’ll probably have to try both more and then decide.

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Maybe the question is just not that simple,
I was kinda expecting people to say: clearly x is tankier than y because of this and that ability or synergy… guess I was wrong there.

But I’m still open for any tricks or advice considering those classes,
as I am fairly new to the game, there is likely still something that I have not considered yet. :slight_smile:

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Thank you for those suggestions,
would you mind explaining those a little?
I have already started a warder as well and I can see how that one has massive healing potential. Is it more tanky than commando/tactician?

But I did not have Archon on my plate yet,
and I wonder how oathkeeper can add anything relevant, his skills kinda look very weak for my inexperienced eyes, what’s the trick with that one?

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Warder will definitely be more tanky than Tactician; commando it depends because both can be tanky if you go Regen route. But overall Warder edges it out.

Oathkeeper brings lots to the table: WPS (weapon pool skills), OA, flat absorb, RR (resistance reduction), flat physical, etc…Damage wise it’s better.

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it’s a levelling guide Blitz Krieg - A SSF, HC-Viable, New-Player-Friendly Warlord

i think the issue is you’re default assuming shield = tanky (which it’s not in GD), and then forgetting the other parts that make a char tanky
You can make a 2h warder tanky, you can make a 2h commando tanky, you can make a caster tanky

*you might also be misunderstanding or overestimating the mention about using multiple skills, it’s not about spreading thin, but picking things that synergize, and CD skills afford that options (eg using 2 skills insead of 1 spamable)

Demo is good because it has native regen and blast shield circuit breaker, that doesn’t mean you can’t make a squish demo nor that all demos are tanky.
Same with the shield concept, since block doesn’t work on a crap ton of things it’s in some parts just a different stat stick, a stat stick that then has to be utilized to work or make up for what you’re exchanging in return.

Likewise you should look at what soldier offers to actually use, because otherwise you might just slap on something else and be “tankier” by virtue of being stronger because you’re killing things 3x as fast despite not taking the exact 1:1 same dmg.

Inquis has inquis seal which will work for any class taking it, regardless of soldier etc, doesn’t mean tactician makes the best use of it or 0 use of it, nor does it mean Seal will carry a class on its own. And if there is no dmg or skill synergy you might not want to just tack on something with the apperance of defensive support just to end up overall “worse” because it meshes no better than other things would that then also had synergy.

Cadence itself can be an… “acquired taste”… for levelling. It’s technically not a bad levelling skill, there are definitely worse, but its special nature means it’s something that might not feel as comfy to all, this can then be “felt” by being 2h or ranged etc and early vs late game going up down in appeal.
*those that do end up liking it seem to like it alot (totally not biased :sweat_smile:)

what does all this mean, well, you can make a caster purifier that’s tankier than a potential AA tactician, you can make an elementalist that’s tankier than a commando, it depends on how you string them together and how you utilize their skills and support. Might go as far as saying strong synergy can be better than just having a couple health/regen/armour passives, or slapping on a shield.
Also that there good ol’ meme “a strong defence is a strong offence”, this can in essence apply in GD to builds that rely on weapon attack+adcth, (but ofc also just killing things fast mean they don’t get to hit you as much as something that kills 30x slower.)

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isn’t leech more powerful than regen?

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you can technically leech more than you regen, both amount and frequency
the drawback is you can only leech while you have things to hit and hitting things that are leechable
combining leech+regen, similar like how avenger warder does/regen weapon attackers, creates the best of both worlds

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If you want a shield build, Commando like this should be a good option:

[1.1.2.5 - 1.2.1.0][HC] Erulan Special Forces - Physical Double-Blitz Commando and variants, SR85, CR170, all celestials cleared - Grim Dawn / Classes, Skills and Builds - Crate Entertainment Forum

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yea just what I said earlier, I do not have all those fancy items yet, so builds requiring them isn’t going to help,

I really hoped I’d get some clear answers here regarding the differences, especially in tankiness, between those classes, but apparently I’ll need to try both and find out myself

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the items doesn’t really matter, it’s a blitz cadence commando, or “ceno’s blitz krieg guide but commando”, so you’d just use that same approach for levelling (stack blitz+dm and blitz + general dmg MIs)

again, you’re not getting a clear defined answer simply because you’re trying to boil thing down too much, it’s not about class it never is, it’s about build.
Similar like how i mentioned it’s not as basic/simple as just slapping on a shield and presuming it equates to now being tanky, because GD just doesn’t work that way.
Your char is the sum of its parts, pick good/fitting parts and it will be so/what you desire

you can make anything really tanky if you stack the various defence mechanics, resist, HP, DA, DR, absorb, armour, sustain, status effect debuffs etc, likewise being lower in one aspect can then be alleviated being higher in another. (also why you don’t see all builds run around with 3500-4000 DA)

if it helps here is the defence layer operations that damage passes through

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Yes, I see,
but maybe this can be answered in a more specific context, like…
for commando <=> tactician, the difference in defense is the different skills provided by demolitionist and inquisitor, so it’s basically the question if vindictive flame + ulzins wrath + blast shield can provide more than inquisitors seal, renewal and maybe aura of conviction/censure,
or is this also generally not answerable due to both builds having different options in itemization and play style?
I really thought this would be easier to answer. :laughing:

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Ulzuin’s wrath is inconsequential in that consideration btw (no defensive bonus over another)

You’ll get more regen as commando, and blast shield is great
You’ll get more HP and more armour as tactitian and different level of absorb. That doesn’t necessarily mean better or worse but different since it’s a smaller amount than blast shield, but permanent

Not having the base regen VF provides then means if you want to equal that side of commando you’ll have to compensate, but in the end commando would be capable of more total regen, so if pure regen = more tanky for you then commando wins.
If raw armour and hp does the trick for you then tactician provide more raw stat in that regard
DR we can call the even because they can both just use War Cry, likewise both can use Bulwark, if not using bulwark then Tactician get a slight edge because it gets dmg bonus oa and phys res in Conviction; but that also means now you have to be a phys or pierce tactician to get that potential edge, while ofc foregoing the regen+absorb from bulwark anyway (trading oleron/offensive commando buff for different offensive tactician buff with slight defensive gain - but again could just have used Bulwark as mando)
You see how it quickly starts to complicate matters? it’s simply just not a 1:1 baseline comparison because it depends on overall combination.

So, with the “baseline” knowledge that you can make both classes tanky if you really wish, commando offers more regen while tact offers different raw stats, pick the class you want to play/the skills you want to use
If you wish to make a char highly reliant on regen/“passive healing” as part of your tankiness you can lean towards commando, assuming same the desired skills can be fit in. If you want to make a more hp/armour bulky char go tactician
(keep in mind if you don’t actually stand in inquis seal you 100% lose the benefits that absorb brings to inquis class)
You can use lifesteal/weapon attacks on both of them, but tactician might require more lifesteal consideration to additionally make up for the sustain commando might have.
And in the end, if you wanna use/have more fun with inquis skills or demo skills then that should be your main consideration anyway since soldier can offer passives regardless.

*additional thing to keep in mind is Menhir’s Will and Menhir’s Bulwark will not work with a 2h ranged weapon,
(it will work with shield and pistol but that’s kinda not optimal dmg wise)
and blitz movement requires a melee weapon at minimum, so 0 inquis wps gained if blitz

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Yea I’ve just decided for the commando for now,
and against all advice I dropped the 2h forcewave as I really wanted to try out shield skills and devotions.
Turns out this isn’t half bad, mortar (having 2 mortars now) with a single point sprinkled in thermite mine (+2) for good measure, greater fireblast for low trash and breaking all those breakable objects, while using conflagration as heavy hitter against single targerts (or quick tap a group of tougher mobs with it for that nice burn),
Runnig a bit of crucible now to get a few devotion points, and mortars are just great there.
Might have overdone it a little with 1733 DA at lvl 45 but that’s a nice test to see how much that actually helps.

Yes that’s pretty early game, but it works. :smiley:

edit: I heard people here like builds, so have a look at a cute little commando, don’t judge me I’m new here :laughing: Commando, Level 46 (GD 1.2.1.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

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Fix your resistances; on normal you have no poison or aether res. And low bleed res. There are components you can acquire that help; or get gear with resistances that you need.

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