I’m sorry why is this a thing? Its not like ‘newer MI = better item’, newer MI means its just for different types of builds and why is there discrepancy in rarity for different builds.
to make SR not the universal catch all best farm approach. Maintains some MC/direct farm and Ascendant relevance etc (similarly like how Altar bonuses don’t apply to SR loot)
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If thats the case then lower the drop rate of all MIs from SR. Why do new MIs get special treatment when they’re same as any other MI just for different builds.
you seriously want me to speculate a dozen or hundred different unknown reasons Crate might have had for that sentiment?
Suppose we should be happy they relented and added them to the pool at all and not kept them excluded like Kaisan has all these years 
3 Likes
I want you to not make unnecessary explanations like this one
without understanding the core problem I was questioning.
Which is: Why do some builds have a harder time getting their MI from SR? (Whether SR is the best source for that MI or not and if they want campaign content to be a better way to acquire MIs is irrelevant. My concern is the imbalance between different builds acquring their prefered MI easier/harder)
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how is it an unnecessary explanation when it’s the explanation?
and that’s asking for the underlying reason for that design decision, which is something i could only speculate about… - so if you asking me that, you’re asking me to imagine XY different Crate reasons to decide why MC should have relevance (enough) to cause the new loot disparity… “beyond” MC having relevance/SR not being the nr1 or catch all place…
You answered this question
“Why don’t we get more MIs from SR”
Instead of answering my question which was
“Why are some MIs more rare than others which causes an imbalance where some builds can get their items easier and some harder”.
This is the reason why I’m saying its an unnecessary explanation, you are answering an unrelated question instead of understanding my question.
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the reason is to not have SR be a universal catch all place…
you’re imagining an imbalance that doesnt’ exist unless you only do pure 100% SR farming, because you can go out and target spawn a Nemesis and get a guaranteed drop…
the reason you think it’s an unrelated answer is because you’re trying to connect it to specific builds, when that’s not the significance.
Like kaisan neck was never a consideration for whatever specific build that might have his as BiS… It’s not a “we hate these X builds let them suffer collecting”, it’s just /get everything equally in SR
*this concept is not new to FoA, it’s just applied to more/new FoA items, not getting all drops for all builds existed in FG too
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Ok lets think of a hypothetical since you are refusing to understand my point.
Say you are farming SR with 2 builds.
‘Build X’ uses ‘MI A’ which drops every run.
‘Build Y’ uses ‘MI B’ which drops every 4 SR runs because its rarer.
Both ‘MI A’ and ‘MI B’ are MI pants that give +3 to a skill for that build. They aren’t inherently stronger/weaker than one another, they are similar items just for different builds.
Do you think its fair to Build Y that its MI is much more rare?
you don’t want my unfiltered opinion on that/wouldn’t like my PoV on sr loot
what item drops guaranteed every SR run? - it’s a false equivalence
again i ask you to turn it around, what do i do when i’m farming 40 sr runs, on a char with a kaisan neck as bis/getting all other items in 5 different char’s builds in the process, but i can’t get that thing.
Or alkamos rings, or etc etc…
and i’m totally sure they have 0 replacements or fillers or stuff that can be used, and nothing can be accepted as substitute even temporarily because this specific 1 +3 skill MI in XY affix configuration is BiS, and has 0 alternatives or better guarantees of acquisition
… do you see what i’m leaning at, or why i’m suggesting with imagining the the imbalance?
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Its a hypothetical, you don’t have to get stuck up on the actual values, from what patch notes say newer MIs are more rare than older ones. Whether you want that ratio to be 1:2, 1:4, 1:16 is irrelevant, its more rare.
I’m going to ask you to rephrase this because I don’t really understand it, maybe give me an example, also you need to answer my hypothetical before I engage with yours.
When have I said the only viable pants for those builds were those MIs? Theres obviously other things that the builds can use.
Let me give you a real life example instead of a hypothetical. An example that I hope you give me your opinion on.
An older MI Aleksander's Chausses - Rare Heavy Pants - Grim Dawn Item Database drops more frequently from SR.
A newer MI Reaper's Chausses - Rare Pants - Grim Dawn Item Database is more rare from SR just because its new.
Both of these items are from a nemesis boss, both are pretty much the same thing but for different builds, why is one harder to acquire than the other and do you think this is fair to the build that uses Reaper’s Causses.
“to keep some MC relevance”, ez…
if you want the underlying reason for that design you’re asking me to speculate… “do you want me to speculate”? - i can give an opinion on it, but nothing beyond ideas for the decision outcome relating to MC…
do you want my unfiltered opinion on SR loot? - you might not like it
yes it’s fair, yes it’s good, heck, old nemesis MIs should be dialed way the frack down, but, they “can’t” do that as much, since it will impact newer players more than old ones.
(which might be part of the reason for the decision, but that’s speculating then)
“why” is it fair, because as i said, this is only a problem or “imbalance” if you purely 100% SR farm, you can go out in the world, like we always could, and direct farm faster - this is not new to FoA, but FoA seem to try spread the emphasis a lil
very much do, because it’s a big difference depending on you getting a guaranteed item or not, which then also pertains to world farm/direct farm relevance - and the imagined imbalance
being more rare is a problem how, and specifically how/why is it only a problem now
ie my “hypothetical” →
many items do not and did not drop in SR at all before FoA either; where was your grievance with those drops and your sympathy for those penalized builds/players, eg kaisan neck you kept ignoring (among other boss MIs ofc)
2 Likes
The MC is more relevant for the build that uses the new MI yes. But the build that uses the older MI can farm SR for legendaries, iron bits and get its MI more frequently whereas the build that uses Reaper’s Chausses has to go nemesis hunting and miss out on legendary/ironbits drops from SR. Do you see the unfairness here? One build can farm only SR to get legendaries, bits, and its MI more reliably, one build has a harder time doing that because its MI is more rare for no apperant reason. (Obviously theres reasons to do campaign for both builds I’m just trying to highlight the disparity/issue.)
I wasn’t active in forums, I would be if I noticed a discrepancy like the one we have right now.
I just did not understand the point you were trying to make, tbf I don’t know if I get it now. I think kaisan neck is a much more universal/powerful MI so it can have lower drop rate as far as im concerned.
I think you are interpreting my point as “SR should drop more MIs” when my point is “SR should drop the same amount of usable/build appropriate MIs despite what build you are playing, some build that uses an older MI shouldn’t get more rewards out of doing SR”.
you don’t miss out, because it’s faster, higher guarantee; and you still get other drops.
The proportions are different, not imbalanced… - you think they are imbalanced because they are not 1:1 in all aspects, but by its very nature SR makes that impossible as it also doesn’t have the same guarantees, hence different ratios (volume vs direct reward)
A (new) build that wanted a specific MI, and wanted that MI “now”, was always advised to targetfarm as it results in faster and more reliable acquisition. - you’re looking at it skewed from already having a stockpile of existing old MIs vs having to “freebie” obtain new for prospective future use, not immediate comparison.
not noticing is not exactly an excuse, if anything it just highlights the issue is bias “when it concerns me”, not the actual function… - you going several builds without the other non SR drops doesn’t mean others did; now you’re starting on a level playing field
The one not caring about the new MI pants/shoulders also wont notice they are less frequent in SR, as you didn’t before…
it had 0 drop rate, along with other stuff - hence me saying we should be happy we got new stuff added at all/Crate changed their minds to include them even if little less rarity compared to old 
i’m not, i’m saying:
You’re creating an imbalance that’s not there from trying to attribute a 1:1 parity out of taking specific builds as the only context, thus applying it as “specific” builds being penalized.
This was never a thing/not new to foa, but also is self created bias because wanting XY item specifically. - you want this shoulder there for it’s a problem it’s not equal in the same pursuit in this area, but it’s okay when it’s not the shoulder you’re not caring about in a given moment/build.
(not actually considering means of acquisition nor utility either)
It’s not Crate hating on XY builds, it’s Crate creating an aspect of content balancing, while also having it be equal in effect to new and old players/all of us starting out FoA.
Build A Uses Aleksander’s Pants (Older MI more common in SR)
Build B Uses Reaper’s Pants (Newer MI less common in SR)
Both of these builds are going to do 100 SR runs.
Build A does 100 SR runs.
- x legendaries
- y bits
- 10 Aleksander Pants
Build B does 100 SR runs.
- same amount of legendaries
- same amount of bits
- 4 Reapaer’s Pants
Build B got 6 less MI pants for doing the same thing, less rewards for exact same content. Even though these items are pretty much same in terms of power and there is no inherent reason for one of them to be more rarer.
In this example I interpreted patch notes saying ‘more rare’ as (4:10) ratio, you can change it to be (4:5) ratio or whatever fits your liking. Doesn’t change the fact that its less fair for build B. I am going to end the conversation here with this example since I don’t think we’ll be agreeing any time soon.
build C goes out and kills Reaper of rot 2x in world and has pants in 5 mins /
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grimtools link for build c pls
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Preach! But as you say, it won’t happen.
I would have preferred that they kept more MIs out of SR and don’t like the change. But … I guess it doesn’t greatly matter, provided Ascendant Mode drop rates for random loot are compatible with SR. Then everybody can play how they like.
2 Likes
not sure if AI is of any uses to u, but here some explanation
Here’s a breakdown of the speculated reasoning based on the discussion and game design context.
The Core Strategic Goal: Gameplay Diversity
The most direct explanation, given by a player defending the design, is that “the reason is to not have SR be a universal catch all place” . This suggests the developers want to encourage players to engage with the entire game world, not just one mode.
- Preserving the Main Campaign’s Relevance : By making newer MIs rarer in the SR, the developers incentivize players to hunt for them by specifically farming the Nemesis bosses that drop them in the main campaign. This maintains the value of the open world and its unique boss encounters.
- Supporting a Long-Term Design Vision : This isn’t a new idea. The design of MIs has historically been about giving players reasons to revisit specific areas. The Shattered Realm is intended as a “rewarding alternative” for farming, not the singular, ultimate destination.
Other Contributing Factors
While not stated in this specific patch note, other potential reasons likely come from the following:
- Content Lifecycle and Progression : As new content is added, there’s often a desire to have players engage with it directly. Making newer items easier to acquire by fighting the new bosses themselves ensures players experience the new content as intended, rather than just farming it in an older mode.
- Managing Player Expectations and Game Balance : There has been long-standing community feedback on drop rates and the power of MIs. By carefully tuning rates, Crate can try to balance the overall economy of item acquisition across all game modes, avoiding the SR from devaluing other forms of play.
The Developer’s “Invisible Hand”
The logic isn’t about making things “unfair” for certain builds, but about game ecosystem management . The developers are using drop rate tuning as a subtle lever to guide player behavior towards a more varied play experience. It’s a way to say, “The SR is a great place to farm, but if you want the newest items, exploring the main campaign is the most efficient path.” This aligns with the broader pattern of adding features to the main campaign (like Monster Totems) to keep it relevant.
in the future the developers might be all AI 
so gnomish will likely loss the job of replying to u, u will have a 24hr ai dev replyin to u 
hopefully the chinese community can start a perhap useful campaign to send opposite sexes to crate developers and ensure a healthy new generations of human crate developers in the future
pls dont ban me for typing with a nosedrip
also i noticed summoning / resummoning hellhound seem to have this “this small yellow circle on ground with runic symbols on the edges, which any mob can throw and which purpose is to prevent face tanking” ?