Next Thing Discussion

What about ranged vit inquisitors? We only have namadea xD

Funny thing someone would mention vit ranged Inquisitor, as I’ve been “reevaluating” some of my theorycrafts just yesterday, and here’s a GT of a ranged Apostate:

Doesn’t look too bad, though one of main issues I see is a pretty damn low weapon damage. I know that Ranged Expertise’s bonus doesn’t apply in GT, but if we substract vit decay portion of damage, we will get about the same number of ~19k vit weapon damage - which is low for a 2h build. This is mostly because of Radaggan and its focus on Aura of Censure - thus no Harbinger of Souls as exclusive.

“Don’t take Radaggan, then” - you might say. But at that point it would be 10 better to go for Oppressor instead, so no, if we talk vitality Inquisitor, then Radaggan is pretty much mandatory. And don’t get me wrong, I personally kinda like AoC part of the set; I find it rather unique.

Anyway, to alleviate the lack of damage, a mod to Word of Renewal with flat and percent vit damage can be added to either the gun or set, perhaps both? Or to Deadly Aim at least.

Oh, and while I’m on the subject of vit Inquisitor: please consider adding 100% aether to vitality to Drain Essence on Leafmane Trophy, as it blocks Skull of Gul’Amash, which means no full vitality DE on an Apostate - probably the only build that would take this off-hand. And considering it also doesn’t have any % vit damage, well… you get the idea.

Adjust skills to reduce the number of shortcuts.
Too many buttons cause many players to abandon the game.

Pffff xD.
Or they cause them to use Scripts ?

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My point was that Chaos Ranged Inquisitor could be and should be a thing because Inquisitor has Chaos RR in mastery and a lot of Chaos support thru different items like Chaos Word of Pain conduit or Chaos Rune of Kalastor. You can enable Vitality RR in Inquisitor with certain items but that won’t be relevant to gunners.

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from V1.1.9.8 Discussion:

from Grim Dawn Version v1.1.9.8:

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I’ve tried unsuccessfully to make a couple of rather boutique builds, mostly pet builds. I’m not sure if people would agree that they need buffs, or that they are very important to support. But the devs asked for feedback so here is mine.

I’m not a super optimizer so it is difficult for me to determine why a build fails (devotions, itemization, etc). What I do know is that sometimes there are items that hint at some kind of build, but I can never make the pieces come together.

E.g. a few items hint at Cold Pets:

Other items hint at some kind of cold or elemental pets using e.g.


But I just haven’t seen how these items come together or could be combined into a build that is not outclassed by other options. E.g. pet trickster is just a bit weird (I like the feel of Korba’s set better for this class combination), Cold Druid would probably be better off by ignoring pets entirely and just using TSS. Obviously Korba’s or TSS are very different from pet builds but because they are so much better they make the items above feel like a trap. Perhaps some of the related items or devotions could use a change?

Another example is the FULL runebinder set:

A build that tries to make the most of the full set just seems to require too much: attack speed for the weapons bonus skill, casting stats for using the runes (and shouldn’t you be attacking anyway?), runs out of energy, is hungry for skill points, lacking resistances, and DA. Meaning it’s jack of no trades, master of none.

At one point I loved the idea of a vitality retaliation life draining vampire kind of Death Knight build. If you squint your eyes at the items below, you’ll see there is almost something to it… But, builds that used these in past patches basically just converted everything to physical, then Azragor’s was changed from vitality to physical regardless of conversion, and then everything was nerfed anyhow.

Here is another item with a strong implication:

It suggests there is some kind of lead-from-the-front pet-based Death Knight. But the PC defences for pet builds are too low to be within field command distance, and trying to add PC defences detracts from pet damage or pet defences and there are better pet weapons and offhands that you miss out on. So I always end up with a build that does no damage and has no defences. Also, if you want to be a Death Knight that is in the fray with their pets, then just use Blood Knight, it’s better and easier. :thinking:

I love the way that the game keeps being updated and evolving. If I could ask for anything (and I am very satisfied with the game already) it would be to elevate some of these “trap” options so that they don’t feel so bad.

frostdread cuirasa is a player item, it has nothing to do with pets
heart of the mountain is good because the pet is good
winterking is a bit of trap because it suggests a hybrid style, which isn’t great but doable, but mostly it just takes better slots/stuff with modifiers
as for build using mindweaver Builds using Bysmiel's Mindweaver item - Grim Dawn Builds
bysmiel trinkets was literally one of the strongest pet builds at a time, to the point it got pets nerfed, and has been staple/favourite in Maya’s pet collection in her “Birb” dominated pet build themes The Carnival - A Guide to Pets
Builds using Bysmiel's Mark item - Grim Dawn Builds
Builds using Bysmiel's Grasp item - Grim Dawn Builds

retal drain essence is good

blood knight is not a retal set, never was

builds using guardian’s of deaths’ gates Builds using Mythical Guardian of Death's Gates item - Grim Dawn Builds

i think Avycytes managed to cobble together a half decent player pet hybrid using Guardian’s of Death’s gates recently


then look builds up how other people do it?
GT builds make is relatively simple to see how/if some builds are put together or if exits at all

maybe that monster infrequent was already considered quite strong for Chaos ranged gunners (you basically have to take it with “of Abyss” suffix), maybe adding a mod to Deviltongue - pistol without mods would be more realistic

or maybe we get nothing again :smiling_imp:

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Frostdread would surely grant a nice flat damage bonus and pct damage to allies (i.e., pets), no? Wouldn’t you agree that this item and some of the others imply that one could build some kind of cold pets build? But if you did try to build a cold damage only pets build, I bet you’d be disappointed. Hence my argument that it is misleading. :wink:

Note that many of those builds are old. Many don’t use a full set, or fully utilize the bonuses that the item implies it should be useful for (e.g. physical cadence with Guardian of Deaths Gates seems quite unintuitive to me!). And many are not proven in the areas that we measure successful builds by (Crucible, SR).

So, while I can see why you interpreted my post as me being too lazy to use the builds function of grimtools, I think my position that some items are a bit misleading, is still reasonable.

it has no pet bonuses/skills, thus basically worthless
sure it has an aura/party buff, but that’s not really enough to carry or consider it over an actual pet item boosting your pets additionally (imo)
aside from not having pet skills, pet bonuses (ie you’re sacrificing a slot purely for flat dmg gain), it’s also a chest slot which means potential pet set bonus is being lost, that’s overall a lot of losses for a mere 20 flat dmg

i would not, which is why i’m pointing it out, it having a fat 0 relation to pets anywhere, means it’s obviously a purely dedicated player item; winterking doing hybrid stats illustrates this when something is “suggested” for pet

it’s not misleading because it’s not remotely suggesting what you’re saying. You’re taking an item and voluntarily choosing to infer X, when nothing suggests this. You inferring X also makes less sense when the items that does suggest this, does so way more clearly, again winter king example.

irrelevant?, unless a build is dead, it being a few patches old means nothing, that’s not how GD patches/builds work; and not all builds are kept uptodate all the time, the concept of a whole is still something to take away from unless a patch straight up killed a build

which is different from what?, this is normal in GD, it’s part of the build freedom in GD; that you are not forced into a set or full set everytime

again, normal, this is part of the variety in GD, and you not being able to see what other see is not an issue with the item but just means you haven’t opened your eyes “enough” to the possibilities GD allows your or all the silly builds/memes that are available

i don’t know where you pulling that from? did you actually bother to look at the builds? just guessed it? or cherrypicked the couple that had no performance metrics listed? because several of those builds have their performance straight up listed in the title eg SR75 clear
^i feel like you’re trying to “reach” a bit

i did not suggest you were being lazy, i was more implying you had blinders on/totally unaware of the build worlds/possibilites, again because of this →

which is then becoming objectively incorrect, simply by how many builds exist, and you being the “only” one attributing a property to X item, that other people don’t or generally wouldn’t (again frostfread obviously not being a pet item)
and most of the items are not misleading or have misleading suggestions and suggesting it is then misleading; simply because it comes from you being unaware/unable to see the builds possible (or already existing) with those items; ie those items are working, and doing what they suggest fine
the main part you’re correct on is Winterking, and it has also been brought up several times before by the community/playtest patch suggestions.
But the rest of it, is just on you/not paying attention; and if the item itself doesn’t illustrate this, the forum builds/YT or Grimtools should easily highlight it

I think gnuffi just likes a good argument/discussion. :wink::rofl:

Kidding aside I see what you’re saying in this instance @Gnomish_Inquisition

i know i nitpick a bunch or interject alot :sweat_smile:

but here it just seemed like most of it was totally unfounded, stark contrast example could be when/if you see complaints about lots of loot to filter through, and the ingame loot filter was ignored

while frostdread cuirass could totally be used as a pet build/“because of teh aura”, it think it’s totally unreasonable to imply the item suggests a pet approach/and then call the item misleading because of that
likewise blood knight has never suggested retal, i don’t even recall it having retal stats/being altered to remove retal ??
Zantai nerfed pets/raven? like 2x in a row? back in early FG days because Maya and pet builders repeatedly used it with bysmiel trinkets and beastcaller to break SR - iirc a comment then was sorta along the lines “wait a moment so i can nuke your Birb resists” or something? :sweat_smile:, and most of her builds featured Birb with trinkets
etc etc etc, lots of “obvious” stuff, that would be super easy to notice/know those items are being used “in their suggested way”, if just kept somewhat slight taps of the community builds/or looked for builds, or on ex GT

so to me seemed more like not so much “not seeing the forest for the trees”, but “not seeing the forest because having back turned and looking at the beach instead” - and then the “but ackshually”guy OCD in me just gets prickled enough to spring into action :grin:

Do you talk like that in real life? JK Lolz. Sometimes I have a hard time following your words/choice of words mate! And yeah, English is my first language . :joy:

Ah yes the inner asshole. Embrace it and cherish it. Few people are comfortable with it :rofl:.

I’ve tried out a build very similar to this and I agree that it’s underwhelming, but I have a different main complaint – the gloves are great for the Bone Harvest mod, but the spiders spawned by them are SO LOUD. It’s one of the least enjoyable builds I’ve tried just because of the constant screeching of spiders!

You’re right.
I modded them away. Can show you how if you like.

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Pet Vitality to Fire conversion please, Defilers still have the short end of the stick on that end (too). Not only do we lack the strong multi-resist support from Shaman/Occultist, but the conversion that would at least give SOME degree of compensation is straight up not working without there being any ingame indication that a pet item’s conversion is only for non-pet builds.

Korvaak’s Burning-Blade is still Zantai’s first gift to defilers but pet defiler is still very disappointing so far.

edit: hold on, I just found the conduit. … which doesn’t work with the only skeleton set that exists.

edit2: And not much in terms of alternatives either.

Or they have to play Diablo and POE,haha

People can play Grim Dawn with 3 buttons or 10 buttons. Why would we forcefully dictate how many skills a build must have now? If your build has too many buttons for your liking…adjust your build?

Also not sure who these players “abandoning the game” are.