No, it’s because they’re free to play to start with so that attracts a lot of people.
1 Like
That is one part of it yes. But they still make tons of money.
about 140k reviwes on steam “very positive”
GD has about 40k revirews “overwhealmingly positive”.
PoE 2 is F2P though.
Grim Dawn also and it’s shows not all games need seasons and online only to be financially successful
Seasons also offer new shiny things at regular intervals. Generally people like that, I guess similar with (TV) series.
Seasons also encourage more engagement from the community, so people can feel part of something, which is less so with static games. Though it can still happen like with GD where there’s a never ending amount of builds to discuss 
I might not like them, but it’s a valid business strategy and they do offer something.
Of course they don’t, no one has ever said that. But “financially successful” has a spectrum you know. I think I am financially successful, but my salary is only about 5k USD / month before taxes - I am not Bill Gates…
Patches in GD almost feels like seasons, but without a “purpose”. The patch comes and hopefully most of builds builds survive or get stronger and opens up for new builds but will “kill” other builds. With seasons you know when it is gonna start and when it is gonna end.
And what exactly do you hope to add or convince people herein?
If you keep up with it. Otherwise it’s just all jumbled up the next time you open the game and you close it again because nothing makes sense anymore 
I’m not sure what to think of the patches. It’s good to balance the game, but there have been substantial changes that are more like reworks of system rather than balance updates.
I hope with a new game and new (saner) engine they can get (more) things right from the start. So we don’t end up with these odd mechanics around physical damage for example.
1 Like
I am trying to add that just because GD has no seasons you can not play at your own pace, because it has patches which can/will change the game and the builds you are playing. So, in some sense - Grim Dawn already has seasons, but they are called patches 
And, that I think if GD had some kind of seasonal twist to it, like having the fan-made seasons official content - it would been more succesful or at least have higher reputation among ARPG streamers/influencers and thus attracting more people playing it and so on…
All you are saying “they still was succesful without seasons” over and over again like a parrot. I know that. We all know that.
Your favorite game, Diablo 2 - has ladder resets with NO new content etc at all, and still people go back to it. And, it has single player offline mode which is also fine. A game can be made both online and offline.
Same can be said about patches. I mean when I started playing GD again after a few years and there was evade skill and sunder and stuff like haha wtf xD
1 Like
There are of course some more obstacles
Offline game:
You have to deal with cheat programs like GDstash etc which can divide a community and make the game trivial. But, without GDstash etc the game would be in the state it is now because builders would not have been able to take builds that far.
Online game:
You have to deal with bots and cheaters, which might be even more difficult in the future due to AI (perhaps also easier to detect thanks to AI who knows).
You have to make sure to keep steady income of cash due to server costs - some of these games are F2P with microtransactions like stash tabs etc (I think I have spent like 100 USD on PoE over the years), other games have “season pass” and so on. I can only imagine how much I would spend on stash tabs in Grim Dawn haha
And I am not here to tell you that PoE is the greatest ARPG ever or so it has many flaws, like you are too zoomed in and can not see so much what is happening, too bloated with stuff to do it takes you a PhD in astrophysics to get the the bottom of it, too bad balance between trash mobs and bosses - you can clear 8 screens of thrash in 1 second but boss fights can take 30 minutes. They streamlined it a bit with PoE 2 but too much, PoE 2 is to PoE as what Diablo 3 was to Diablo 2, too simple.
I mean thats true with any ARPG with updates, offline mode or online mode.
So that’s not really an argument against offline mode.
That being said the probability to fuck up builds in an online mode like POE is higher because there is no constant balance on what already exist since you make changes that are too significant every leagues.
Crate in the other hand, makes playtest patch to balance the game.
You do realise that Crate Entertainment is about 20 to 25 people as far as I know working on a few projects at the same time. It makes it fun for them to work on different style and they have success with all projects so far making good money.
Having Online mode and leagues is super risky, look at what is happening with Last Epoch, last time I looked at it, they seems to have a hard time financially.
Crate would have to go all in, probably stop doing other games, increase significantly the amount of people working to make the content needed for each leagues with a release every 3 to 4 months.
In other words, putting all your eggs in the sames basket has downsides from the standpoint of the devs : risky because can’t rely on other games for success, can be more stressfull, can be tiring to always work on the same type of game.
Working on multiple projects allows them to reset the creative side and comes back stronger with new ideas.
And the “I can play my own pace” “I can get back whenever I want” are no arguments for an offline game.
People do testplay the seasonal content pre-release. One does not have to make huge changes for every season, just some balance changes like now with patches and having a few seasonal bosses that drop some cool loot and so on. It does not have to be as crazy as in PoE.
Yes, but GGG was not 300 people when they started either.
It is, but tbh I do not think LE would be that good game even if offline only. And wolcen failed too, despite having no seasons… because it was not that good of a game.
Depends on the scope of the seasons. You think ladder resets in diablo 2 needs lots of people?
Most of the time online games add content to the league first wich is annoying.
And the balances can be out or wack because of changes, way more than in offline mode games (in my experience and from what I have seen).
I want a game that the balance is better and better over time. It’s usually easier to come back to the build you played or want to play which should be in a decent state even a few months later, unless you play an OP build or if you play builds that no one is really playing.
Maybe GGG wasn’t 300 people at the start, but now that it exist you have to compete with it because players have some kind of impectation.
Ladder reset with no content doesn’t cost as much but won’t bring as much money too. Not sure I see your point here. Also, when there is not a lot of significant changes people don’t stay for too long most of the time.
Yes, they are. They are the reasons why the people that prefer offline play prefer offline play.
3 Likes
But they are only valid if the game has not changed so much that their earlier progression and work was “in vain”.
They are valid for the entire game’s lifespan. It doesn’t matter how much the game changes, every piece of content made for the game will be in the game until it disappears (and even then people can play the game in less than legitimate ways).
That’s the problem with seasons and online play in general, they add shit that eventually will disappear. Eventually there’s too much bloat, and you have to start cutting it off. But to new people that sucks because they probably would have liked to try that content.
There’s enough online ARPGs out there, let Grim Dawn be Grim Dawn.
4 Likes
Give this man a black label!
Tell that to all my conduits I crafted 4 years ago I invested so much farming of materials and such, just to have many of them being obsolete. Or my immortal Rune of haggarad mage hunter who could kill ravager without moving… dead build due to sunder mechanic. Offline games that changes will affect players in a similar way as season resets etc will do.
It does not have to be like that or become bloated, there is a risk of course. Heck, I even think Grim Dawn is too bloated as it is now and will become even more with FoA
As I mentioned, ladder resets does not alter anything in terms of content.
Balance is good, but it also boring. If I manage to figure out an OP build, then I must be prepared that it will not last next patch. Annoying and detrimental imo. If it was a seasonal build, then I would be more ok with the “loss”.
That is true. What I am saying is that it does not have to be as extravagant as PoE seasons. It could be small things like conduit or whatever that devs seems to chance every patch anyways.
That’s incredible small potatoes compared to entire storylines and areas being deleted from the game. Which happens in many online games.
A build here and there being affected is nothing. Which, by the way, happens in online games too.
1 Like
I do not miss any of them They were fun to do at the time but I have moved on.