I’m afraid I don’t know how to quote, but I’ll reply to you in the traditional way.
A) I am not projecting, neither I am ill-willed. If I was, you’d see me attacking anyone that has different opinion.
B) If the fact that a game has a significant change (not only the sunder, but the mandatory dodge mechanic) does not affect you, I understand. But if I wanted a game that had dodge, I would turn to the several other games I have to do so.
C) If I wanted a much more difficult game, I would play one. I remember Grim Dawn back when you had to return and get the components if you didn’t have them on you to clear as shrine, and I also remember having to farm aether crystals. Never complained about difficulty itself, as much as the nature of this mechanic.
D) Possibly. Like I said. I haven’t tested it. I speak of experience with other games.
E) You making the mod means that it wasn’t see only one person complaining. I understand that in the vast ocean of the world, a few complains are just a drop. The reason you made the mod, either out of pity, or just felt generous, is irrelevant.
F) I never said that you were not reliable. What I said, the support might stop as you are not obligated. You created because you wanted to, and some will thank you for that. This is that you might not have time (As I believe that you are an adult with several chores to do), or an update might break it.
you can quote by just marking the text and a prompt should appear
the key takeaway shouldn’t necessarily be tqFan’s/the original author’s continued mod support(for this type of modification), but rather that it’s possible with the game tools, and which degree of simplicity the modification has; ie something everyone can/could do on their own with the stuff the game provides default - in essence doesn’t require any modders support then because “you” could just accomplish it too
basically the difference is whether or not it’s something outside/complex, think Grim Internals tools that died, or GDstash, or big mods like Reign of Terror - big deal/requires author’s support
vs simple game file edits, opening the game tables and changing a value/line - no big deal/everyone can do it (Asset Manager/basic mod tools comes installed with our game)
so in this case probably shouldn’t be a big worry for you
As it was mentioned several times, recommending to stick to the old version without any updates on said version is exactly why I believed your response had a bad vibe. This is not a solution, nor I believe that there will be one. Like I mentioned, the overwhelming support you mentioned somewhere could be from the fact that people just stopped playing the game. I know 9 people who stopped after the update, and I’m a misantrope and don’t know a lot of people. In a market that has several thousands of games, it natural for someone avoiding to deal with this.
Continuing, the steam loyalist packs are cosmetics to fund the project, which again, its natural, cause money doesn’t grow on trees. While I know I will be attacked for this, I believe that saying that the loyalist packs are proof of commitment, sounds a bit off. It was a perfectly justified move for more income. The commitment was shown on the DLCs, which were tremendous work in atmosphere, artistic nature, lore, and gameplay wise. What your statement sounded like, to me at least, is “i’m sorry, i guess this is not for you now.” and persisting on the advice of sticking to the old version sound like “Here. Take this and eff off.”
Anyhow. Now know that its not gonna change, mainly because it was already implemented, and changing it now will probably break a ton of other functions, and create more problems that it solves.
Thank you very much for that. It’ll help. Like I mentioned earlier, I have played Grim Dawn for some time. It’s one of the few games that are always installed in my PC, after every OS install. (Somehow I’m unlucky with drives, and they are prone to failure.) The difficulty raise doesn’t bother me much, cause you can spot sunder and such. What bothers me is the obligated dodge mechanic.
I wish I knew that many people who played the game! My circle’s much smaller (only a few of us), but, yeah, we’ve all stopped since 1.2 sucked the life out of it. A play session is exhausting to try now instead of invigorating. We want to play. But then remember that we have to hit dodge incessantly and decide to do something else. (We play primarily multiplayer.)
How does that many sense? There was a significant uptick in the game’s userbase after the update, so much that we hit a record 97% (98%?) positive recent review score, with so many new reviews left that the overall review score increased. That is pretty hard to do when a game has over 75k reviews.
Again, I’m sorry v1.2 was not everything you had hoped it would be, but when the vast majority of the player base is in support of the changes and is enjoying them, I find it difficult for an argument that X or Y was a mistake to stick.
If you truly believe we made a grave error with v1.2, the version of the game that did not suffer from our atrocious design decisions still exists, evergreen and just the way you left it. You can’t tell us we ruined the game you loved and pretend that option does not exist for you.
I of course understand that it feels lame that the version of the game you did enjoy is effectively no longer going to receive updates, but doesn’t that eventually happen to every game? We made decisions that we felt would serve the majority of our players. If the opposite happened and say there was a mass of feedback telling us we fucked up and the reviews tanked slamming us for making these changes, I assure you we would act accordingly to make our players happy again. But that did not happen and evidence overwhelmingly suggests we continue to be on the right track.
That’s pretty dramatic. Did you actually try playing without evade bound? Or did you just face-tank every big attack before v1.2?
Once again: telling people to stick to an out-of-date version that’s missing content and other great changes is not a good answer or look. You are indeed the ones who decided, at this point in the game’s life, to turn it into an entirely different game.
Yes. It’s incessant dying without the forced dodges. And half the time when you do dodge, you end up in a worse position than you started even.
People wrote glowing reviews because of the other changes in 1.2 (dedicated potion UI was a top-desired feature of mine since initial release). And the general vibe of the game getting another major update when people thought it was over. And alongside the announcements of a major expansion coming so they were hyped. I promise you they did not write all of those reviews because of the rubbish dodge that was force-fit into the game.
Again, I’m sorry you don’t like those mechanics, but objective facts dispute everything you keep repeating. And yes, there were actually many reviews praising the new evade mechanic, and many comments in our various communities that loved it.
Now that I learned how to quote, nobody can stop me! Except for a ban.
So. I own more than 20 wonderful games out of more than 100 in total, and made 5 reviews in my life and that was mainly to warn people of a bad game. I have several people who don’t do steam reviews. I believe this explains it.
And it seems you got me wrong. The latest patch doesn’t worth a bad review. There was a significant change, yes, but it is still a very good game and most of the changes made were pretty useful. Its just not the game we bought. If you had created a Grim Dawn sequel with the dodge function implemented from the start, there would be no more issues than the usual. But you did it to a game that people have devoted time, and it was a fundamental change. Some of these people will not bother with a negative review, not only because of their time and effort, but because giving bad review to a game that gave you all that fun feels kinda bad. Just like an ex that you didn’t just fit. You don’t want them dead, you just don’t want them on your table. In the same way, we just stop playing. I’m not trying to threaten you to change your ways. Like I mentioned, I already know that’s not gonna change.
I didn’t pretend. Its exaclty as I mentioned, and I don’t know why I have to repeat the logical thing. Offering to revert back an older version that does not receive updates or DLCs, while new DLCs come out, keeps sounding like “Take this and eff off.” and “I guess this game is not for you anymore.”
But this is the issue. New DLC will come out. And yet, people who own the game will not be able to play it, because Crate decided to fundamentally change the nature of the game. While technically its their option, its still an issue.
Additionally, I really don’t appreciate you constantly attempting to invalidate my lived experiences.
But, you’re right about Grava in a way: Another reason “stick with the old version” is not a solution. 1.2 fixes the almost-universally-despised dispel mechanic with him and Arcane bosses. That people begged to be fixed for years. Another reason for dodge+sunder to be fixed rather than people hiding behind the unhelpful and wrong “use the old version” fluff.
This is turning into just another example of “hard mode”/“git gud” type people ruining the experience for everyone else. It happens time and time again as developers listen to that very vocal small minority. And waste increasing amounts of development time satisfying decreasing numbers of players.
In all honesty, I’m used to oldschool games so to me, the reaction time for me feels enough. The warnings are there, even though some of the mobs can sunder you even while the dodge hasn’t cooled down yet. (The shambler is one example) To me, its not much of a problem, as much as a hassle, and while I love playing soulslike games, I didn’t buy Grim Dawn for that. I have already several other games of that style to play.
Exactly. When I want to get sweaty palms, raise my heart rate, and strain myself by hyper focusing on inputs, I’ll play a technical platformer. Especially since these (and soulslikes, too) are actually built around “you’re going to die and get to try again” and let you reasonably repeat to learn that routine.
Grim Dawn cheapens itself by needlessly pursuing other games.
Haha well…I can tell you that not everybody feels bad about downvoting a game they put hundreds/thousands of hours into…so I’m not sure that’s as much of a barrier as you think.
This phrasing of “fundamentally” changing the game is rather subjective. Evades are not some foreign concept to ARPGs. We did not suddenly make Grim Dawn a souls-like because we gave you another ability to use.
The monster skills we added Sunder to are not new abilities we added to the game that require snap-reflexes. In fact, we slowed down every single animation that applies Sunder. In other words, we took previously dangerous abilities and made them easier to react to. If you were not reacting to them before v1.2, then that was a failure on our part to make those abilities meaningful. If that was fun to you, that’s fair, but it did not align with our vision for the game and, over time, we felt that too many encounters became mindless tank and spank experiences you could out gear and never worry about again. Again, if that was appealing to you, that is fair. It was not appealing to us however, and we make the kinds of games we ourselves like to play.
As for the evade skill, honestly after playing with evades in other games, I found myself subconsciously pressing the keybind in Grim Dawn and it felt like something was missing. It felt like such a fun tool to me that I strongly believed it would make our game better. So when we decided to revisit Grim Dawn with v1.2, I made the decision, which was supported by our team, to introduce it to the game alongside our other changes.
So if we had made it an expansion feature instead, that would have been fine? Either way, it was getting added. It was a question of when. And again, if the community had shown us this was a bad idea, we would have revisited it. But every metric we have suggests otherwise.
I am certainly not telling anyone to fuck off, but what do you expect me to say? We are not going to roll successful and overwhelmingly popular features back. So there are two options: unsatisfied players accept that it’s a part of the game, play a version of the game that doesn’t have it, or move on. I can’t offer you any other options.
Because i have taken sunder attacks and still lived, and that’s with squishy characters. So i don’t know how you are dying everytime you are hit with the sunder, or at least that’s what your posts seem to imply.
It’s also incredibly dificult to take your posts completely seriously since you don’t even bother to link grimtools links of characters. I have tanky characters that shrug off sunder from Nemeses, meaning that they can still facetank just fine.
Your posts make it sound that’s a completely different game, but it isn’t. This isn’t new, the game already had plenty of attacks that forced the player to move out of the way, the difference now is that the player has a much BETTER way to avoid them. I fail to see how that’s a bad thing.
And you’re not going to get any build links because it’s not at all in any way a build issue. It’s not a build issue. It’s been said again repeatedly, and not just by me (even by people who are OK with evade+sunder) it’s not a build issue. It’s a fundamental game design issue. This is with EVERY one of my MULTIPLE characters that had NO PROBLEMS doing clears before 1.2. And now I regularly die to pretty much every boss, constantly. And no, it’s not that their builds or gear was nerfed and needs to be changed. And no, I shouldn’t need to redo all my characters to have to be face tanks now because of a shit new mechanic (neverminding that Grim Dawn is and should continue to be about build diversity).
Dodge is entirely incongruous with this game and feels awful. It doesn’t fit at all. And isn’t in any other genre-similar game I’ve played. And it’s forced with these new mechanics to be required, and, yes, the game feels entirely different now. It doesn’t feel at all like Grim Dawn. I basically never play anymore (which really freaking sucks) because of it. It feels completely different to play now.
I don’t understand why people want every game to rush to clone the worst traits of other games instead of standing strong on their own [previously] great merits.
Yeah, i figured you would say this because at this point you just don’t want to be convinced of the positives of dodge and sunder. Which is fine, but don’t be surprised if a lot of people, including the devs, aren’t convinced by your arguments either.
Half of the bosses don’t even have sunder. What you are talking about?
The positive of sunder is unifying disparate mechanics that different bosses had into one more easily understood and remembered debuff. Except sunder doesn’t interact with the rest of the game (except “nullify” and “cleansing waters” type things). It’s just grossly overtuned to force people to have to dodge, because the developers made a new thing and decided they had to force people into using it instead of leaving it as an option for people who wanted to add twitch reflexes into a game and genre that doesn’t need or benefit from them.
I’m fine with sunder – after it gets a little bit of a nerf. It’d the forced dodge I can’t stand (which is tightly tied to sunder’s current overtuning).
Don’t be daft. You know exactly what I mean: the bosses that count, the ones that have it. All the meaningful bosses have it. (And then some.) I’ve literally never died to Viloth before 1.2. That’s really annoying.
