On "Farming"

Hello. I forced raise the issue of the size of the stash, despite the fact that this topic has been a discussion. As far as I know, the main argument from developers against an infinite stash is unavoidable quickly drowning of players in piles of crap, which they will collect. It is frankly insulting to the normal players. Why should we suffer because of the hypothetical idiots, incapable of self-discipline? I play Titan Quest for many years and use TQVault, and a have few chests for different categories of useful items. But in accordance with your “logic” i must already to swim in tons of crap with totally crazy look and scream “I WANT MOOOORE!!!” Seriously, what a crap?!

So, here are some arguments in favor of large (or infinite) stash size.

  1. The game has a large number of components for improve and craft items. Furthermore, each component of a certain type has a certain bonus, which can be useful in different situations. Thus, the personal stash of character jammed by components (or items), and when playing on hardcore lose it all because of the lack of free space in shared stash is simply unthinkable stupid.
  2. There is also a large number of items that are useful for different builds. Because of two-class system in the game at present time has lots of possible builds, and this number will increase by N - 1 for each new N of masteries. Naturally, many players (myself included) like to experiment with builds, but how is it possible if I can not store items suitable for my future crazy ideas? What do you suggest - sell rare items, and then to farm it again as completely idiot?
  3. With the increase in level cap come new items and even within your paradigm it is necessary to increase stash size, but you don’t doing this. And what will happen when there will be items 60+, 70+ levels etc.?
  4. Players on hardcore-veteran (like me) are in need of an additional place to an even greater extent for keeping spare items because their characters - SURPRISE! - sometimes die!
  5. Finally, sometimes you just want to do collecting items and sets. So why can not I keep all honestly collected content in game i bought?

Seriously, the little stash size was the most fatal mistake of Titan Quest, and in your new project you seem to want to correct the mistakes made then? Then your current position about this topic especially strange.

Perhaps it will be good idea to make a vote at a forum on this issue?

Not going to rebut each point, they all say the same thing. Game has stuff, you want to keep it all.

Sorry, it is not a vault, it is a transfer stash. It is designed to move stuff from toonA to toonB. IMO, 1 page is plenty. And yes, I am one of the idiots that cannot stop putting stuff in the stash so require it to be of reasonable size so I can actually find the one thing that needed to be in the stash, in the sea of the other crap I keep, even without a toon planning to use it.

Poll has been done, it is a polarized issue without consensus.

Uncontrollable collecting of crap is a behaviour deviation. But normal players can’t obtain comfortable gameplay because developers want to prevent emotional trauma of players with this deviation. Amazing…

Why not evolve it to vault then?

Seriously, the most demanded plugins for D2 and TQ where PlugY and TQVault. Quite self-explaining, eh? Players want these things and not giving them to players is a mistake which will be used once by one of the smart competitors.

VanHelsing has a much larger stash - I don’t hear anyone blames it for this reason. Torchlight has much larger stash - the same thing, no blames for this.

I can understand Crate does not want to spend time for this task - completely understandable reason. But, for the sake of truth, please don’t try to put a logical reasoning under this decision. Just say honestly - we don’t want to do it. Philosophical reasons “players are wrong when they think they want it” look lame on my sight. Some sort of “you play it wrong” myth.

One more thing - you can just make cost progression for every new stash tab. Or you can to add one more violet item with low chance of drop and make
this item necessary for stash improvement. So nobody will drown in crap and hardcore players will be happy.

This is already a thing.

Because of

So they have kind of said they don’t want to do it, and gave a good reason why.

Personally I still think expanding the personal stash is the route to take to solve all of these problems…

I mean every new tab in infinite stash.

I made this idea in the thread about stash, but will add here because people are talking.

It stands to reason to make ‘purging’ as easy as possible to get the stash back in shape. Make one or two button clicking such as ctrl+leftclick on an item make it delete or sell. This way if you get overwhelmed you can very easily
‘cut back the weeds’.

edit: it would still be a problem organizing ‘tabs’… so maybe you have 15+ (whatever you used) tabs to degrees of purgeness, but it is not too organized. but at least with ctrl + leftclick you could very rapidly delete uwnanted items.

I offered a solution suitable for both kinds of players here. It can be implemented easily without hard work and much coding. So I guess it is not that good reason :slight_smile: Just an artifical excusion. Anyway, we will have to take what we are given. I’m just sad about it.

The major problem that I have with farming is that it isn’t rewarding since there’s plenty of players who use trainer of save-file dupes to get items in a really fast way.

I enjoy farming followed by trading off the items I don’t want with other players. What I don’t enjoy is getting the feeling that the guy I’m trading with duped his stash a couple of times so he is able to trade out everything. It basically fucks (pardon my french) the farming system because there’s too many of X item going around due to duping/use of trainer.

So before you start worrying about farming I think you should add a mode that is only playable when your save games go into the steam cloud and NOT your own computer (to prevent duping items). Also getting rid of third party software like trainers is something I’d really like to see.

Once you have a “clean” game discussions about farming become viable but right now, not so much.

Different topic, different thread, different game. Not happening in Grim Dawn (until maybe post-release), so deal with it - literally.

Also, because the game is balanced around singleplayer and not multiplayer, discussions about the validity of farming do not have anything to do with trading, and so they are perfectly viable discussions to have.

Farming is kick ass

The major problem that I have with farming is that it isn’t rewarding since there’s plenty of players who use trainer of save-file dupes to get items in a really fast way.

There is a “legit item” trading thread where you can trade.

As a geriatric gamer (73) I have played a lot of games of this genre including D1, D2, D3 and both Titan quests plus Torchlight. In all cases farming is what I like to do, most of the fun in all these games, for me, is in trying to collect all the pieces of the various sets for the characters. My only regret in Grim Dawn is that you can’t find any set items for characters lower than level 20. The Diablo series is even worse, you rarely get set items untill you have played the game through at least 3 times, that is why I gave up Playing D3, I got bored! Torchlight is much better in my opinion, set items pop up very early in the game and do help character development.

I realy enjoy playing Grim Dawn and you Guy’s have done a great job in developing the game but can we please have some low level sets in the early stages of the game?

Totally agree about the great job by the devs, but not so much about low level sets. The early levels go very, very quickly so there isn’t a lot of use in grinding to find the parts of (for example) a level 10 set as you likely won’t complete it before it’s no longer powerful enough to use.

They could, perhaps, tweak it to have some sets start a few levels earlier, especially if these were smaller two or three piece sets that could be easier to collect/complete.

Hopefully this is still a thing and is related to potentially upgrading epics, though I’m not certain. Hopefuly something to make them more useful at later levels, becauase you are right, low levels move quickly.

IMHO, in a arpg, low levels doesn’t matter.
The goal is to reach the socalled “endgame” at which you start gearing up with the best gear available and building your character.

Instead of making lowlvl setes, i’d prefer to level faster, so that you can reach and enjoy sooner the endgame then start looking for your perfect build/set-gear and fighting the most challeging content with the others…
This is especially true in d3, where reaching top level is really easy to allow you to catch up woth the others and coop together at same level.

There is no sense in stacking rare gear at level 10-20 that you’ll trash soon; much better to get quickly to a level where any rare gear you drop really matters, even for your endgame.

A not-so-innovative suggestion: allow people to create a top level char from the beginning, so that you have no handicap in joining other top-level players matches and play together…in a sp+mp game the already low population is made even smaller by scattering people because of newgame+X, quest status, level, difficulty, etc…:frowning:
Its result is that anyone ends up playing alone, except if you have a friend that plays a character only when you are together.

I disagree.

Not that what you like and suggest is wrong, but because I have the opposite tastes. I think this is really impossible to create a game that fits everyone expectations. Every single player puts in the game his own fantasies and desires.

What I like about Grim Dawn is not what my friends like about Grim Dawn. I love korean leveling (like titan quest where it was sooo long to get a character lvl 75), and korean farming (items reaaaaaally rare, like fucking rare). But I know that a lot of people are bored with that kind of game design, and I think we should all be happy with everything we love about a game, and deal with the rest of it.

Because creating the perfect game is just an utopia. Even if we all love the same genre, and even if we all love the same game, we would all suggest a way to improve the game in opposite directions.

I have played the game for 260 hours found almost every blue item in the game, but come across things happening like having the same few resource drops over and over and them never seeming to change. I have not come across one single olerons blood drop and manticore eyes seem to be rare for a wide variety of people. Putting this much into the game “farming” is just another way for a player to release the games content. The blood drop can exist in the game, but it doesn’t exist (or really… usable) to that player until he has it available in his inventory.

Making rare drops easier to get would cause players who want that content farm less, but possibly play the game less and on the other hand it might give them time to create another character and do things they would want to do on it… possibly making them more entertained than having to be on the same character they could never find that olerons blood drop on and even perhaps deterring cheating.

One part of this game I have also found myself doing which has seemed impossible according to the number and length of acts and also the time at which events would happen… I found myself farming faction reputation… notably enemy faction. Seemingly by the final act if you had played the game without much farming even the friendly reputations would not be fully unlocked until the final act on the final difficulty and forget ever seeing a nemesis until Crate had released another 3 expansions unless you wanted to spend another 80 hours farming reputation.

This is not some complaint… I am pointing out that if there wasnt meant to be much farming, then it seems if the player wanted to unlock the majority of the games deeper content he would need to spend a lot of time farming… which doesnt make sense.

Craftable components drop seldom, especially the higher level ones.