Pet Changes Discussion - now with 100% less testing!

[Maya]

You dont even know if its undesired (yet) because you havent tried it… Bring the man evidence. Im putting together my shit now and going to try it … If its destroyed Ill show him videos, gt’s … The man can do nothing WITH nothing because you dislike something you read.

I am going to need deep SR and Celestial data too. Not just buffed Cruci

Also, along with it, I need:

[BB_Shockwave]

They spoke on the pet changes awhile ago but the gist is that community players around here have long criticised pet sets like Beastcaller, Ghol, Bysmiel, Diviner etc. for being way too good and overshadowing a ton of pet items that aren’t part of a set but occupy the same item slots that they do (with exceptions here and there of course, like the majority of pet rings that do conversion like Glyph of Kelphat’Zoth for Lightning pets).

So Crate’s objective was to siphon a lot of the general “power” behind pet set items into pets in general but leave the identity for pet sets as enabling more permanent pets intact (e.g. Beastcaller still does double Briarthorns, Bysmiel’s set still does double Familiars, Diviner still does tons of Spirits etc.).

As for whether it’s a general buff or nerf to pet builds needs to be tested as it is a radical shift but the intent is that any previous pet builds shouldn’t change massively in effectiveness, underperforming pet builds should hopefully be stronger.

Yeah but… they could have done that by just adding maybe more pet boosting items? I mean we still have way too few pants or boots for pet items, and honestly, could do with a few more rings too that aren’t for Necromancers.
I actually do wanna build another build around the Necrolord’s Shroud, but I did not want to give up my existing build for that.

[Ulvar1]

Grim Dawn Version 1.1.9.0

They do for me.

But that is WITH bonuses, if you wann know the base stats, you need to watch items in Grim Tools or on a naked char.

Clearly you are not playing a Conjurer then.

I do play conjurer.

Grim Dawn Version 1.1.9.0

This, so much

I did not whine when RoH skill was “killed” a few years ago. Pets was not working perfect, they were broken, unbalanced. Because there is no competition or anything, why you feel you need to do SR 100+ to have fun?

Grim Dawn Version 1.1.9.0

We play pets in GD because they’re actually good in this game where in most arpgs they are sub par.

I thought you played pet builds because you like the playstyle? Pet builds are still actually good, I just played my pet build, it was like if the patch never happened at all basically.

Grim Dawn Version 1.1.9.0

I am going to need deep SR and Celestial data too.

Just play yourself, like what I did today

[iOnlyPlayPetBuilds]

Let me know how it goes. I’ve already decided to just drop beast callers anyways now. I found something that probably should be nerfed as well and just got over looked. Will play that instead.

[Maya]

I am going to need deep SR and Celestial data too.

Just play yourself, like what I did today

No point, since it won’t generate the data needed to convince Zantai.

The nerfs are in line with what he wants. So, it is working exactly as intended by the devs.

Just not as intended by the part of the playerbase complaining.

[Ulvar1]

No point, since it won’t generate the data needed to convince Zantai

What I meant was, supply data yourself, you said that you needed that data.

[toapeiron]

Yay, the good patch drama is finally here!

[Ceno]

Humans generally don’t like undesired change, so can you blame them for not even trying to play with the changes?

Funnily enough, it was widely desired to offload power from items and put it into innate skills. Rejoice! People got what they want.

[Maya]

No point, since it won’t generate the data needed to convince Zantai

What I meant was, supply data yourself, you said that you needed that data.

and I am saying it will be a waste of time if the intention is to convince Zantai to revert the nerfs.

I am only asking for data when people are trying to convince me that my builds are working fine.

I want Cally kill time on a Pet build to be under 10mins. Don’t think Zantai agrees.
If I show him a 12min kill time, I am sure he will go “working as intended”.

Funnily enough, it was widely desired to offload power from items and put it into innate skills. Rejoice! People got what they want.

Nope, people got their wish granted, but not what they actually wanted, making this a case of “be careful what you wish for”, just like with Blightfiends in 1.1.8.1.

[iOnlyPlayPetBuilds]

As I said, i’m not even going to try the changes and just go to the next best pet build.

[Evil_Baka]

Yeah but… they could have done that by just adding maybe more pet boosting items?

Doing that means they have to have their artists suddenly jump back over to Grim Dawn and make new models or item art if they can’t find ways to slip pet support into existing itemisation. They just did that with the new sets but they’d have to do even more. As much as I’d love new gear for some builds and concepts and have advocated for more as I get new ideas, I do have to concede that it requires some measure of time and work to do and Crate have to weigh in whether that time or effort is worth investing with them being a relatively small studio.

[Maya]

Yeah but… they could have done that by just adding maybe more pet boosting items?

Doing that means they have to have their artists suddenly jump back over to Grim Dawn and make new models or item art if they can’t ways to slip pet support into existing itemisation. They just did that with the new sets but they’d have to do even more. As much as I’d love new gear for some builds and concepts and have advocated for more as I get new ideas, I do have to concede that it requires some measure of time and work to do and Crate have to weigh in whether that time or effort is worth investing with them being a relatively small studio.

While I agree with this, I would have preferred that they didn’t change anything in that case, rather than the current change. Perhaps I am in the minority that feels that way, but I prefer the previous patch to this one interms of pet balance.

[BB_Shockwave]

Are you playing with the expansions? I mean you can easily complete sets now with Transmute. Just need to find the blueprint for the helmet, then transmute it to the other pieces. I too only managed to complete my Beastcaller set with the second expansion.
I wouldn’t say it is not worth it, the 2 Briathorns and the Call of the Beast skill are still really powerful. But the feature with having the Primal Spirit around longer is now gone.

I guess I missed that pet damage+health was increased overall in the update - I assumed that would be described in the various skill details. So I suppose removing the bonuses from the sets evens out now, but it is an odd way to balance things, and the sets now feel like they add less bonuses, especially if you do not see by how much the skills were buffed?

[Maya]

I guess I missed that pet damage+health was increased overall in the update

Only if you max out or nearly max out the skill nodes.

In other words, 26/16 Briar and such

[iOnlyPlayPetBuilds]

Yes i’m playing with expansions I just restarted after getting my new gaming laptop since other one died so I’m not in ultimate again yet. Removing a bunch of bonus from items just makes finding certain items less desirable. There’s still going to be a meta build people will follow and copy anyways.

[Ulvar1]

I am only asking for data when people are trying to convince me that my builds are working fine.

Have you already quit the game or? Just play your build yourself.

Removing a bunch of bonus from items just makes finding certain items less desirable. There’s still going to be a meta build people will follow and copy anyways.

yeah, now you have target other items than beastcallers basically. What is wrong with that? You have played for years and still no beastcaller set? like what?

[Maya]

I am only asking for data when people are trying to convince me that my builds are working fine.

Have you already quit the game or? Just play your build yourself.

I am on 1.1.8.1. Don’t see myself getting the update unless we get a hotfix or something.

One does not need to step on broken glass to realize it won’t be a pleasant experience.

[Evil_Baka]

Only if you max out or nearly max out the skill nodes.

In other words, 26/16 Briar and such

Isn’t this what every build aspires to do though? Not necessarily for Briarthorns and not necessarily for pets but in general a build always tries to maximise a handful of skill sources by hardcapping them. With pets, I get that investing in multiple pets is always beneficial and the preferred way of building damage but you still choose gearing to maximise 1 or 2 pets with any others as secondary don’t you?

[Ulvar1]

I am on 1.1.8.1. Don’t see myself getting the update unless we get a hotfix or something.

If you are not happy with how the game is now, you can always start modding or use mods

[BB_Shockwave]

I supplied data already, but sure, here is more.

Playing with this build https://www.grimtools.com/calc/p25YqEK2
In 1.1.8.1, the Primal Spirit lives for 25 seconds, and the cooldown was reduced by so much (Bound Wraith’s -6 seconds, Skill Cooldown reductions by the Wraith and Beastcaller’s Cowl) that it was 26.9 seconds, meaning I needed to only wait 1.9 seconds after it died to summon a new one.

Now in 1.1.9.0 the cooldown is 29.2 seconds, and the spirit lives only 20 seconds, so I need to wait 9.2 seconds.
The big issue here is the now missing +5 seconds lifetime the set added. The increased bound Wraith 2 seconds do little to compensate.

Hope that is enough data for you.