Pet Itemization: randomly affixed greens versus predictable uniques / sets

So what did you try with? No greens at all, or just play without any affix?

Beastcaller set have double briars = 100% dmg boost right there

As mentioned, double briars is 100% dmg bonus. There are several items that have “total damage modified” for all kind of skills, and some of those items are green MIs and without those items, build will perform way worse.

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I actually want the MIs to conflict with Beastcaller and then buff Beastcaller set

but that would just reduce build diversity no? (making beastcaller the 1 and “be all” set again)

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Then post such suggestion in the ideas and feedback section.

But then we are back to the previous pet meta, sets are too strong :smile:

Nope, increase it. Since you can make strong Beastcaller builds without needing Greens.

How is MIs being too strong any better?

like, i haven’t tried lost souls ritualist after the patch/base increase, but i’d imagine that it would fair “better” now, not needing beast caller, but ex having the offhand to help offset not using beastcaller
Mi modifers are (imo) a major boon to build diversity, not just strength/potential OPness. Again, many single purples come with (powerful) modifiers too, just harder to get because RNG for those that can’t be crafted - why look down on MI modifiers when they are just “equal” in terms of potential application use, but potentially easier to get, thus making simpler for beginners to gear up too (when not relying on double perfect affix ofc)

What I am saying is that it should be like the Primal Spirit Medal.

how would taking away green modifiers, buffing beastcaller “increase” diversy, when it then shoves players into only using beastcaller, and no other pet build
-whereas the modifiers (and ease of availability) on MIs allows you to literally spread out, and not rely on a or specific sets, but can cobble multi pet approaches together without, again ex lost souls briar

Not taking away, but putting it in a different slot that will conflict with beastcallers so that you can only use one or the other.

Want 65% modifier to Briarthorn? then no double Briarthorns.

Single stronger Pet vs 2 weaker Pets.

Like Pierce through modifier for Raven conflicting with Trinkets set.

depending on what slot you move it to it could however conflict with other items/sets tho, “nerfing” the overall pool of availability, and again only shoving pets into “1 or the other”, with reduced diversity
i get it in the example with Briar, the set allows for both neck and offhand to be used, and like a said, i’m sure Z would be happy to “tweak” the dmg modifier a bit, and don’t overall disagree with swapping some modifiers around - i just think it’s something that’s either hard and or needs to be handled with care to not just end up with "1 pool"pet meta item matchups

and i think medal should be +1 summon to kitty since we need that somewhere :sweat_smile:

personally I tire from reading people telling others they can’t use (certain) greens in their builds or anything else
I know this is a bit out of context for the discussion between Maya and Ulvar but it’s something that’s being brought up a lot, and the reference to that welcome thread really triggers me…
one could say you can’t use full SR sets either because the time it takes you to farm for them will be close to the time it takes you to farm for the perfect MI

personally I would like to see people here feeling free to post whatever they want, no build police needed, thank you
it would probably lower the treshold for comfortably posting builds, I’m all for it
players can then decide if they would try such a build, and if they ask we can tell them if that’s a realistic goal

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Move it to Chest + Shoulders. Will conflict with Beastcallers and Corruptor of Souls.

Right now, if you want go go Briarthorns, you will still go Beastcallers. And you will take those 2 greens as well, because those slots are free. Especially now that Primal Spirit is being made separate from Beastcallers.

So the devs already did what you fear might happen. Nerfing sets did not increase build diversity. It reduced it since now said sets need particular support items to be as strong as before and everyone will go for it unless they want to be different for the sake of being different.

If build diversity was the goal, attractive competition interms of other items needed to be introduced instead of every patch getting non Pet items while pets still being stuck with old choices. If they weren’t getting used then, they won’t see any use now. You aren’t going to want to use Mogdrogen’s Cleaver simply because Offhand Choices get nerfed since Mogdrogen’s Cleaver is still terrible, for eg.

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It is actually not even relevant because I am not looking at the colour itself. That is just a coincidence.

I can offer a parallel and contrast with Familiar Conduit + Trinkets set. You can’t use both due to conflicting slots. You don’t need to use both for a strong build either.

You can use the greens op is using (offhand+amulet more important than rings) with Beastcallers. You need to use both for a strong build.

yeah I know, I could have emphasized that more
what I said was mostly in response to how Ulvar was welcomed on the forum

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and completely “killing” diversity, locking you into “all or nothing”, ie back to same old meta, since single items would never be able to compete with the set bonus

right now you have the option of as ritualist boosting briar through offhand, removing it would (imo) gimp it/force you into something else, ie not allow diversity
beastcaller conjurer allows birb passthrough, so you get multi pets, + birb bonus, ie stronger raven too but not as obscene as 2 or 2 with passthrough

and i don’t see sets need specific items to compete, just that some allow for something that couldn’t compete before to compete ex phys briar, while beastcaller/sets on it’s own isn’t ludicrous in strength on its own, you might still want it for a specific pet, but you are no longer “bound” to only use a set for X pet if you want to compete, because MI modifiers allow you to make strong pets without its direct set, again ex lost souls briar, fire skeles etc etc

The point of the patch was to make single items compete with the Set bonus. Hence the nerf to Sets.

Are you saying that it has not been achieved and that it is fine?

If so, what difference does it make whether those single items are part of a Set or not?

Right now you have the option of playing a Briarthorn Ritualist if you want to gimp yourself into a weaker build. That is no different from it was before.

Beastcaller Conjurer with Birb Passthrough will be worse than Beastcaller Conjurer that doesn’t focus on Birbs. Tried and tested it actually.

Then prove it by not using those specific items.

Only… those items are not available only to Phys Briar. (Rings aside)
So, take a Chaos/Bleed/Lightning Briar with those items and compare it to Phys Briar and see if they can still compete.

But then who would use it over beastcaller? 2 briars is more worth than 30% extra dmg.

If I had more interest in pets I would definitively do more builds and use greens in those builds too and see how they fare.

Btw perhaps it is time to move to a new thread and discuss these matters. I find the discussion on pet itemization interesting but not sure this is the best place bc now we are a bit too far from the actual build :slight_smile:

That is a good question.

And that is where you get the option to then look into ways of creating items that people would actually want to use over Beastcallers and then actually promote build Diversity.

I and others have complained about how having 2x of a Pet is so strong that people are forced into sets vs non set options.

Even now, with the nerf to sets, the fact that you feel 2x Pets will outdo anything else simply due to not having an extra pet shows that the pigeonholing into Set items haven’t been addressed by the patch.

You can say it does address using more than 1 set. But pure Beastcaller Builds only used one set before as well, but got nerfed now.

Ofcourse, if we instead see it as Pets getting an overall nerf, I guess we can see common ground there even if we don’t agree whether that nerf is received or not.

But given the snippets of my comments in the OP, it is very much relevant. If those weren’t there then sure…

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It is still possible to have fun with a build even if you know there are relatively stronger options. This point gets touted on the forums quite a bit, with what I believe are negative results.

When I load up a build from my saves, it’s not always the objectively strongest builds that I find myself playing. It’s the snazzy, spunky ones that I like :slight_smile:

And I do believe physical pets get the snazzy seal of approval

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that’s not my job because my criterias are way lower than yours

i’m saying it has partially achieved that, and what you are saying would revert/reduce that, big time

the point is to not make them block out all sets, so you can combine/mix and match, and do something more than just lost souls feat mandatory X offhand, now you have briar boosted as ex ritualist, or a passthrough amy for conjurer

depends on your definition of gimp, diversity and performance criteria, i’ve seen a lot of complaints about pet ritualist beeing way to homogeneous, and ex “big” issue of skeles not being viable, not talking your performance metric viable but not even viable for main content past elite.
Not “only” having the option of reap spirit etc through MIs powerfully boosting other pets while ex maintaining lost souls bonus, or bysmiel trinkets, means you can be much more flexible as a casual, but i’m betting also as an elite builder

really?, so i guess passthrough to birbs are worthless then, great, then doesn’t matter it conflicts with trinkets - or your metric or criteria wasn’t appropriately aligned with the approach, ex just doing a single raven boost with the amy and taking that bonus for what it is instead of a bleed build with a different bis neck or summon amulet or whatever “non-green” booster

i think i “have” by using your old build conjurer build post patch, and that my green version of skeles/set+mis actually do worse than other setups and could probably be improved upon a ton by an expert, but remain perfectly playable for casual criteria