Then I’d argue that there was no need to nerf Pets in the first place just because they were thought to be too strong. And I emphasize the “thought” because I don’t agree that they were strong enough to warranty nerfs compared to non pet builds.
I do welcome discussion about physical pet builds but now I think we are too far from that by discussion of set meta in pet builds.
If someone can show that MIs are too strong then it is not better for build diversity either
If you want to argue and make up claims, I’d say it is fair to ask you to back them up as well. And if you know my standards, you also know I am arguing on the basis of those and if you are not, then there is no point in the argument to begin with since I am not going to lower them.
No, what I am saying would take it to completion.
I want Sets to be Strong. I also want Non Sets to be Strong enough to Compete.
That will not reduce diversity.
What I don’t want is creating an artificial diversity by making sets weak enough so that the previously weaker items look more attractive now.
No one would go for weaker options if they didn’t go for those before. So nothing is achieved if that is the point.
Previously if builds were Cookie Cutter ones with Sets, now Builds are Cookie Cutter with Sets and Specific non Set support items.
That does not promote diversity in any way or form.
Not sure what you are arguing or trying to argue here. All I am saying is that one is worse than the other objectively speaking, regardless of the metric used.
You haven’t. If you had, you’d be posting Cally 10 min kills here or SR 120 clears…
Have you done that?
You just wanna see nerfs to pets bc of my build 
Making a pet build that calls for nerfs is like the ultimate dream of mine!
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I don’t think we are too far since I am saying Physical pet builds are using those MIs as Crutches without which they won’t be able to stand while non physical pet builds don’t need those Crutches for same or similar performance. Also that MIs are getting used as Crutches for Beastcaller Setups while non Beastcaller setups don’t need those.
You just did, with this build.
Double down and make it a skeleton build, then I’ll really be impressed 
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Did you just call my build too strong? 
best day of my life! I think this build is kinda meh 
I will actually explicitly state it even.
I am not just calling it too strong, I am saying that with the best affixes + rolls and proper piloting (think plasmodermic’s Ghol Ritualist that broke Crucible Record), you will have an overpowered build the likes of which I haven’t made on pure beastcallers and all that with pure Physical, which is even more of an achievement since this is the first of its kind since I have joined the GD community.
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But crutches… idk as explained before, I am used to melee and casters (and ranged) build to use MIs for skill modifiers and conversions etc to perform.
Ulvar made broken pet build, who would have guessed that
That is only in regards to arguments about balance.
It does not take away anything from the sheer power displayed by the build.
And no, I am not being sarcastic, but I can actually see it being nerf worthy if pet builds were too strong before.
sets are still strong, that’s the whole point,
and the MIs do compete now, not only making mixed set builds something but non set too, ex fire skeles
no, because i don’t test your criteria, i test mine, and am perfectly happy with those, - you however wont even attempt to test it, because you’re disappointed with the concept overall before actual finetuning
you are making the claim they can’t compete, so you back it up, (with effort), my claim is they can compete, and i have run my pets to satisfaction for the content i do, and for what i think builds should be capable of ingame
no, because you used 1 metric, “bezt briar/beastcaller”, without consideration for variety or approach. Obv a bleed briar will be stronger with a bis bleed neck, or beastcaller stronger with a green bis. The point is, do passthrough birb add “anything” to conjurer, my bet is yes, even if it’s not tier 1, birb focus or not, since by default passthrough should = more dmg than just basic neck, thus a good thing/something to spice things up.
told you, we have different criteria, and your criteria for a pet “viability” isn’t just that it does something, but that 1 version of build does it nr1, leaving 0 room for build diversity/other potential or beastcaller conjurer or lost soul ritualist “competing” but being nr3, or 5
^and you haven’t even tried the combos because you’re so dead set on the “set nerf” and old meta that you can’t even give thought to “the absurd” like a non-reap spirit build.
You’re the expert, make it work, don’t just do cookie cutter fixed set all builds, reap spirit/trinkets, but actually spread things out and allow for a pet build to not make it to 120, but be satisfied with 85, like “most” other normal builds that aren’t godtier
ever thought if maybe your main hindrance in build diversity is your rock hard criterias?
heck most on the discord are satisfied with 75-76 clears for regular builds and consider 85+ extremely good but not mandatory for a build “success/fail”
you both say that pets weren’t godtier, yet have so high demands of them, that 98% of all other builds couldn’t meet, and now with a “seemingly” reduction in goodhood you don’t give pets, or variety a chance, instead you want things to go back to set meta and pet godtierness through sets OP boosting, obv restricting variety because then not only would notthing else be viable by just your standards, but back to the “so many leagues apart there is no point even by casual perspective to play anything else”
What am I nerfing now?
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spellbinders
rumours would have it +6sec primal spirit on Halion medal is too OP and should be replaced with a +1 summon limit to primal spirit instead 
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What do you use the familiars for? Aren’t they too weak with so few points invested?
I have most of the items for the build, I’d just have to farm a second ring, I may give it a try 
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Some heal of myself.
Have fun with it! Let’s pray it does not get nerfed
The ring, just do the vendor reset abuse trick in bastion of chaos. Go there with loads of iron bits and patience, go to the last level of that dungeon, stay there for like 30s then go back to the previous level and check vendor. Repeat.
@Maya https://www.grimtools.com/calc/gZwGpBjZ lost soul set we can not use Zaria amulet for additional 30% dmg modifier to dog, but instead we can use halion crest for attack speed (or overseer for crit dmg). Has anyone tried this kind of build?
My 2 cents:
- Zaria’s pendant and Bloodsworn codex can work even without pet bonuses, you need them for damage modifiers, they are target-farmable, saying it’s "illegal’ to use them is like saying it’s “illegal” to use Krieg set or Dark One set because they are also target-farmable
- you can still use Mythical Heart of the Mountain for the extra pet + Solael Void tome (Sold in Solael Supplier) for +1 to Shaman and +1 to Occultist
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They aren’t. That is my point.
Then you don’t get to argue since I am not calling anything weak based on your criteria either.
This is like someone who only does Main Campaign saying that a build is fine even if it can’t do 2x Crucible in one round of blessings.
Whether Pet builds still perform to your standards or not is irrelevant to me. I am complaining that they no longer perform to mine or to those of others with similar standards.
I don’t like to handicap myself unless going for meme builds. If you do, do not expect me to accept that position as fine, for me.
Then please do not argue as if you know better. And if you don’t, then don’t argue at all. Not because you don’t have the right to, but because I will never accept your position and you will have better results shouting at a brick wall.
I want to make and play good builds, not sub par ones. Not going to change that stance either.
Nothing has changed to that even now.
That was never the case. But then again as I said, you have much lower standards than most of the veteran builders. That is not my fault nor an indication of anything.
I can show you my post on how it reached 120. Because…
…those builds in actual circumstances only reach 85.
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Briarthorn dmg bonus on offhand and amulet
I don’t do Skeletons builds. And Lost Souls without Skeletons and just hounds is much worse.