I was just referring to the similar “problem” as we have with beastcaller + zaria + bloodsworn off-hand. But in the case of lost souls sets, the zaria amulet dmg bonus is blocked but instead we have medal with speed bonus. What do you think of this?
If the build per se is good or junk is a secondary question 
I do not consider myself to be able to argue in good judgement whenever Skeletons are involved.
So, I rather not discuss anything involving them.
I did not mention skeletons, only the dog aspect here.
1,5 y old though.
For me, it was a tuesday yesterday
my “tonky” skeles use those MIs among others
I was more thinking like just focus on the dogs, not skelies. Something like this https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BvgDB2
Anyway, there was just a post about physical vire might warlord, that uses several green MIs. Not a single comment yet about that 
they are
and the point is, which i think is Z’s too, is that maybe your standards isn’t what it’s supposed to be, when it “fails” 98% of all other builds that can’t reach the same godtier - lower your standards to reasonable competitive levels
and that’s fine, but then by default you are invalidating not just what diversity there is, but potential diversity too, because with you it’s all or nothing nr1 S Tier AAA5 - which by most people should be unreasonable, as it self limits variety of play. Thus you say “diversity doesn’t exist; because i don’t play it”
you have people wanting skele builds, blightfiend builds, non reap spirit cabalist and ritualist, non beast caller conjurers etc etc etc, make something happen with those
Critt showed you that non MI offhand briar can totally work and compete on chaos setup, now “you” make that work for sr 85, calla whatever, it’s shown things are possible, with or without MIs, that isn’t diviner trinkets or beastcaller trinkets
something being nr2 doesn’t make it sub par, if that was a standard metric you could throw out 99.9% of builds on the ETE sheet - the whole point of variety is to try and make something different “compete”, not necessarily all be a record breaker each time, but viable, (and viable to reasonable standards imo)
-and your standards probably far surpass even other elite builders, allowing room for even less diversity. Meanwhile you have people doing viable stupid non-retal or non-spellbinder stuff, “magically” clearing cruci in sub6 and doing SR76 or even higher, some even a Celestial or two. But because it’s not sr100 or an AiO god-killer those would be pointless to you, yet you cut off the variety yourself, not because it wasnt there
most of your regular builds still follow the exact same setup… beastcaller trinkets, diviner trinkets
You are the pet expert, you should be “leading the field” in not just pet variet but competitiveness, making something spectacular out of blightfiend, fire skeles, and dare is say a non beastcaller briar…
^we others can “do it”; but we don’t have your expertise so it wont be “as good” as it might have
like most SR 100+ builds that boss fish and spends a day cycling the right “setup”.
Remember the days when clearing 76 was good enough? - heck to most players “your” suicide blightfiend passthrough birbs/“variety builds” that can/could accomplish that would be plenty enough for most players seeking (good) non cookier cutter play, because to most anything above is “pointless” as it doesn’t offer anything, and for “challenge” it’s okay to have a “better” build…
You’re the pet expert, if any can do it it would be you. If my trash can make it 66farm, there is no way you can’t do it “better” for solid (reasonable) competitiveness, keeping in mind not all things are created equal nor should be, because then we end up with cookier cutter samey indistinguishable builds that all use beastcaller/diviner+trinkets…
I even mentioned in my rankings on the subjective best builds thread that i was looking forward to you pushing the limit/whipping up something exciting in 1.1.9 and with all these new easy MI modifiers available, because if anyone could obv it would be you
… but i guess as long as the “competitive” requirement is AiO godtier & sr85+ only, we’re just gonna have to toss that desire out the window 
yeye, like i don’t use those 2mi’s “for the skeles” i use them on the setup because lost souls also did dual doggo, so seemed like worhtwhile trying to pull both off, “incase skeles aren’t tonky, hopefully at least doggos got some bite now”
and dmg wise it isn’t really bad, tho speed isn’t exactly the same boon as total dmg tho, but to be fair on my setup i also have an absurd amount of speed… or at least “had”
i still think, at least for my trials, the main issue with lost souls is vit dmg… it’s just a pita not only to get RR for it, but “enough” of it… so the dmg just isn’t great
I have, as stated several times, almost no clue about pet builds
But somehow I will make a decent double dog build!
me neither man @_@, but
i’m positive a doggo due build is viable, heck i want it to be, and if conjurer for a kitty too wouldn’t be bad either
my “gut” feeling is just it has to somehow not be vitality dmg, or at least more RR than mine, because even at 200speed, 1100%dmg, full doggo pointed and pup MIs and conversion into vitality (and ofc 11 skeletons backing dmg up), the dmg just seems strangely low… And other setups just did more dmg, but loses the hound… 
Feel free to prove your claim then, instead of making baseless arguments.
And yes, need to be based on my criteria and not yours.
And the point is that yours and Z’s standards are too low compared to “competitive” levels. And no, I won’t lower mine.
No, I am saying that there is a lack of diversity because there is a lack of strong options.
If I give you a plate with Stale bread, another with Broken glass and then one more with a lump of Clay, you don’t have 3 diverse meals.
Critt’s build is a different beast that I actually worked with while he was making it. If you want to discuss that, we need to get into a whole lot of other stuff.
Unfortunately, you have no understanding of any of what you just wrote in this paragraph because you do not have first hand experience of any of it since you never bothered.
You call Pets and my builds god tier and OP and yet lack the knowledge to know they aren’t and never were. But even worse, you lack the willingness to learn.
Nevermore - Dark_One Pet Conjurer, Nocturne - Pet Conjurer, Woof - Pet Cabalist, OwO - Pet Conjurer, Celes - Pet Conjurer, Bottle Fwuffy - Pet Battlemage, Crazy Fwuffy - Pet Purifier, Fwuffy's Harbinger - Pet Dervish
Most of my “famous” builds use the exact same setup, because no one wants to play the likes of the ones listed above as much as say… Will-O-Wisp or Fluffy Squishy. Supply and Demand.
Correct. Hence why I don’t consider them to be overpowered because they managed SR 120 mostly by chance and luck and hours of trying.
More details here: GrimSheet: Endgame Build Table - ETE edition [v1.30-ε]
On Crittrain’s build: [1.1.9.0] KaosKats V2 Taking pets to the Darkside || 5.18 Cruci ||
Wrong actually. Because, meet Ishtar - Pet Ritualist
It hasn’t been hit by nerfs enough to make it weak.
Reap spirits might be the next ones to go… but I am still on 1.1.8.1, so don’t really care 
I know some diablo 2 players still play the old patches still to this day, like 1.7 instead of 1.14 Perhaps one day GD will be like that too.
Otherwise, I think discussion about pets being OP or not kinda belongs elsewhere.
Yes you mentioned retal and Spellbinders. A few things being OP doesn’t justify pets being OP as well.
But you are proving them to be OP though 
When did I mention either of them? But I see you still wish to troll.
How is 13 min calla kill and 4 min ravager kill OP? I have builds that kills calla in 3 min and ravager in 1 min
Because that is OP in pet territory.
Pet builds can’t kill Cally in under 7 or Raver in under 3.
Hence why I don’t understand the “Pet build got a rare SR120 completion after half a day, So OP, nerf!!!” arguments.
Different builds do different things differently and Pets have their own niche. They should be allowed to be good at it.
okay it’s not diviner trinkets, but it’s still diviner reap spirit 
(probably gonna get nerfed anyway with alkamos’ hybrid posted 
)
and yet most builds will neeever ever do that even with the same effort or luck = godtier
i do, i have, it’s just not for me, think i mentioned i see it as pointless?
and like i said, if base criteria for success is 75-76 ex from some builders in discord, with 85 being a bonus, then what’s wrong with that, when they still consider it competitive?
the ETE sheet is a great example of that showing how freakin few builds make it past 100, and with the vast majority only using 75 as parameter and still not even doing 85, from competitive builds.
I’d (personally ofc) rather want a build that does 66 or 76 “fast” than is “tanky”/strong enough to do 90, or 100 - because those are kinda useless metrics as they don’t give you anything “useful” in term of actual gameplay(farming) - let the epeen builds be stronk and few
(and yes i’ve heard the whole “but if it’s stronk enough for 90 it can definitely do 75 fast” - to which i say doesn’t apply across the board)
again depends on your definition of competitive, even all of madlee’s builds didn’t have the same requirement that you put forth of pet competitiveness… hence my point of your standards being higher than even other elite builders, thus “perhaps” a wee bit unrealistic from a game standpoint… (not saying you don’t have the right to it, just that it doesn’t “help” the argument/discussion, and that it might contribute a little to not being take as serious sometimes from a feedback/Z pov maybe)
you’re assuming they were meant to be fitting of your criteria, if sets weren’t supposed to perform that way, then your criteria becomes “unreasonable” to use as baseline for still being/performing fine.
idono, guess i had higher hopes for your (1.1.9) builds than you do
Diviner Trinkets are getting carried by Reap Spirits more than birbs.
Just like you never see any Pet build do Cally kill in 1 min either.
Or most Pet builds scratching the under 6min mark.
So a lot of non pet builds needs nerf as they are god tier too. Unless SR is the only thing that makes something God tier or not.
Not until you have built and played a build that does these things you call as “pointless”
Simple, they do not know the sacrifices it takes to make a build push higher or the tricks used to do so.
It is like asking for a magician to be burned at stake for being a witch because they don’t know the secrets behind magic tricks and think it is real magic.
It is a great example of many things. Look at the Crucible Scores of the pet builds there for eg.
Madlees standards are Crucible based just like mine are Superboss and SR based.
Hell, I am more disappointed at the Superboss performance going down rather than the SR one. Could have easily nerfed pets by giving SR mobs a bonus against pets (like superbosses have, they receive less dmg and do more to pets)
If you want someone else’s perspective that is not mine, you need to ask a SR focused builder.
No, I am saying that saying sets “aren’t supposed to perform that way” is unreasonable.
And if they do not fit my criteria then your argument against it is void by default.
I had higher hopes for this patch too. So you are not the only one disappointed.