Ok here Pet Changes Discussion - now with 100% less testing!
If you had any context for the overall performance of other builds you wouldn’t even be making those claims.
But you wish to be nothing but dismissive so I guess you can stay in your fantasy world ¯\(ツ)/¯
I never mentioned Spellbinders or Retal there. So, try again.
And again, who are you? I ask because you have no idea what I know or do not know although you have shown yourself to know nothing, even to troll properly.
https://forums.crateentertainment.com/u/Relinfearous/activity/topics
https://www.twitch.tv/relinfearous/about
Why do ppl have to explain who they are, are their arguments less valid?
BTW guys, I have asked moderators to clean up here.
So another clueless twitch streamer?
And who someone is does matter when they make stupid arguments.
If I were to say that Bleed Battlemage is OP, I’d expect pretty much everyone to not take me seriously compared to say, someone like Rhylthar, who dabbles more or less exclusively in Bleed builds.
that’s like saying “if i want to swim inside the sun and you have a more based position your position is void because it doesn’t match mine” 
indeed it shows not all things are totally equal, like it shouldn’t, (and that Kaos kitty has proven things are possible)
you give them far too little credit there, they know, they have, they just don’t apply it 100% across the board for all builds as a measure of “success” - and that would be pointless and homogenize things too much stripping ton of GD variety/diversity
i have like 5 “identical” retal characters, and a nearly 100% green blademaster because of it.
and I don’t find it fun/entertaining to workshop, much less fun to run, and i feel it’s a totally pointless metric in a game that’s highly centered around gathering loot, to “build tanky and push” high, and get nothing out of it.
If some people find satisfaction in shaving 1second off a cruci run, pushing sr 185, that’s fine and all the power to them, but i find it pointless to use as metric of viability and competitiveness when it goes outside not just the scope of the game, but even among other competitors…
Doesn’t mean y’all can’t have those performance standards, just saying i find it pointless, probably many others that do, and it gets far less sympathy then in terms of balancing/nerf outcome and feedback
just like i feel like comparing or using retal builds as performance comparison metric is completely pointless, because that’s not pet conjurer levels of godtier, it’s arguably down right cheating despite the consecutive hits 
our disappointment is different tho, i’m disappointed because i thought you’d “lead the way”, your disappointment is completely giving up on the patch/changes instead…
In that case enlighten me, what are these Godtier builds that can facetank Callagadra and Ravager and kill them so fast?
You’ve already shown what you know by making stupid comparisons when it comes to superbosses. They require very specific preparation and the fights highly depend on the build’s archetype. Some build types just can’t kill them at all, many can’t do it in a reasonable way.
So expecting pets to do all of those feats in an exceptional way is crazy. You don’t realize how safe pet builds are compared to other stuff, being able to steamroll through a laundry list of content.
retal, check alkamosH for vids
No no no! She never mentioned retal. That can’t be it.
she didn’t mention it there
she just used an ex of 1min calla kill here for my metric, not the same argument/comparison
So credentials are absolute law? You think getting x upvotes by Redditors gives you omniscience?
Do you not realize one of the reasons mad_lee is a literal fucking meme is because he thought he was infallible? Why are you treading in those waters if you want some kind of credence to your words instead of actually paying attention to the game.
In that specific post the “godtier” builds are mentioned.
Well, if I am used to swimming in the sun because I am built to swim in the sun even though I will get snuffed out while swimming in water, I should be allowed to swim in the sun instead of someone living underwater saying that I shouldn’t.
Hence why the nerf to all pets is not warranted.
I agree that Crittrain’s build is OP. Been saying that since I playtested it the first time.
No, you give them too much credit.
They don’t and no they haven’t.
Only if you do not understand what Variety means.
Since when are Retal, Pets? and why would you having Retal chars matter for an argument about pets?
And why should we (or I) instead ascribe to your metric of Viability?
I am not asking for sympathy or providing feedback hoping for a balance patch. My statements should have made that clear. I am simply stating my opinions on the patch without expecting anything to change because of it.
I am doing so here because OP made it relevant.
Even Mountains get whittled down by the wind after enough time. I just don’t have it in me anymore to continue to play Zantai’s game of balance.
When did I mention Facetanking or do you believe that Pet builds can “facetank” either of those?
(Ravager is kind of possible if you have 2x totems)
Jack of Trades, but the Master of None. That has always been pet builds since AoM atleast.
Next you will say Water is wet and that it shouldn’t be.
So, to make it clear, are you someone from Reddit who got hurt by something I said there?
Did you try to advertise your channel or a weak build and got downvoted for it because I pointed it out?
Atleast now I know you are from Reddit.
Let me make this very clear. If I get compared to Mad_Lee, I will take it as a great compliment considering how good of a builder he was.
i’m not saying kaos kitty is OP, i’m saying it shows there are possibilities, (even post patch)
wasn’t an argument about pets, but understanding ETE/competitiveness “which i had never done” - which i had, just with other toons, hence my distaste for the competitive scene (from a play pov), heck you could even call my tonky skeles a go at “competing” with pets, tho that was never the intent since i had something specific in mind/unrelated.
because “reason”, sensibility, when you say something isn’t working/“fine”, when even among elite builders/competitors those same performance standards are “really high”, it skews what viable (actually) is, artificially reducing diversity
meh, what’s there to do, summer and winter will come and go and Z will balance… what else is there to do but face the “challenge”, play Wolcen? 
I don’t use Reddit but your mentality nicely fits that hellhole and must be why you use it.
mad_lee made great builds. You made great builds. That is not in question. Keep up.
And way to misinterpret my words. You really have that disingenuous shtick going for you.
If that is not OP, no Pet build in existence is…
Seriously, that thing is broken, even now…
My argument was never about competitiveness though, but whether you understand pets enough or not.
Ask Duskdeep what is really high.
A bunch of 100m runners won’t be able to tell you anything useful about running a Marathon if they have never attempted it.
Mods are there if I decide to update. If not, there are still builds for me to make and play on 1.1.8.1
Interesting that you generalize an entire community like that.
And from doing so comes knowledge and experience, not to mention both are required to make great builds in the first place. And that carries a certain amount of weight when it comes to opinions.
But since you have neither the credibility or displayed adequate knowledge, don’t be surprised if I do not give any credit to what you have to say.
Lets not play that game when you are doing that to troll here, shall we.
I’d rather not reiterate the exact same things in hopes of getting through. I’ll drop the point as it’s apparently too hard to grasp by certain hands.
Please keep the banter friendly. And maybe just ask the other one if you have understood them correctly.
my point wasn’t to debate the OPness or nerf worthyness of the build, but that it shows possibilities post patch. Just like with phys briar you call it OP and “illegal” relying on 2MIs completely missing the point of it being possible post patch and that the Mis are valid because easy to obtain
^doesn’t mean it wont be “balanced” later, but it should show you not all hope is lost in 1.1.9
and i understand pets “enough”, you don’t need to understand pets on a Madlee builder level to understand or grasp their power, that’s the whole point about them being godtier, think i’ve mentioned it before
they are (often) and AiO build, which alone is almost so uncommon it displays something.
It does high SR, again i don’t care if it’s 100, 90, or 85, it does, and most builds don’t.
It is possibly the safest and easiest leveling build, with fair ease of gearing(not to godtier lvls ofc), and when end geared,
it can do everything, and do so safely, and with ease
my “understanding” of pet conjurer being Godtier comes from not only being the first build i killed Crate on, did SR 76 on, killed Mog and Ravager (not Calla, couldn’t be arsed) but did so with massive ease compared to “every” other build at the times i did those things.
Sure i could kill mog and ravager and even calla without pets, but non of them were easy or without sweat, pets were (i wasn’t doing full derper retal just yet at the time).
Sure you can take a blademaster and blitz cruci in 5mins - if you’re a skilled or practiced pilot, that same build/same setup, wont do much else for ya. Sure a blademaster can push 76 too, can even kill Calla, but it does so in different setups each and everytime, and still non of those feats are accomplished with “ease” or a feel of “safety”.
The ooooonly build that rivals/supercede pet conjurer in both AiO’ness, ease and safety, is retal, and that’s only because it’s absurdly broken to be a borderline exploit/cheat
every other build that either manages those feats “individually”, or rarer as AiO, does it much “harder”/puts a lot more requirements on the player one way or another.
That doesn’t mean pets are so OP they deserve to be nerfed to the ground or anything, but does mean that some “trimming” might not be totally unreasonable
1.1.9.1 isn’t a case of the Wildblood “dead build” outcry, where a build 100% reliant on something gets taken away. Pets were “balanced”, and imo more actual balanced than Z’s usual “lets strip these things away because too stronk”
like i said, when a casual like me, not only doesn’t notice a hit, but possibly an improvement, there is no freaking way, there isn’t somehow an expert like you can’t make it work “still”, if not even better ( - until Z nerfs it again 
)
and i can totally get your exhaustion of not wanting to “bother” going through workshopping, “just” to make it onpar or slightly less/0.5 than before, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t still strong, or that they weren’t godtier…
If critt can make something cut pet cruci timer in half, obv OP/nerf worthy or not, it should fuel the pet enthusiasm in you to make it happen with something else too, so pets aren’t “always” relegated to 10+cruci and “only” stronk in SR farm.
maybe you got too good at the pet game so your standards blew out of proportions 
I do not think it is a case of misunderstanding what I wrote, but I can simply explain incase others are probably curious.
My comment in question:
First line:
“It was never any more “Godtier” than any other build.”
Explanation - Different builds do different things.
Pets for example made 2 spots in this thread: ⭐ The fastest cleaners in the World
Some builds are tanks, others are speedsters, others are celestial killers. Pets are jack of all trades or if built specifically for a purpose, lose out on other fronts.
Second line:
“My pet build kills Cally in 10mins? there are those who can facetank it and do it under 1”
Explanation - If Cally kill alone is in question, then you have much faster non pet builds including some that can kill under 1 min. But if a build kills cally in 5 mins, it is still what pets can never do.
Belgo is neither retal nor binder, but can do it in 4 for eg. Still godtier compared to pets for cally.
Sure, both are godtier compared to an Aether Dk that can’t even kill Cally, but if you ask for Aether DKs to be buffed to that point, I will support you.
Third line:
“My pet does SR 120? Yes, if you consider spending half a day for it even to get a favourable state to attempt it to be an achievement.”
Explanation -
" More details here: GrimSheet: Endgame Build Table - ETE edition [v1.30-ε]
On Crittrain’s build: [1.1.9.0] KaosKats V2 Taking pets to the Darkside || 5.18 Cruci ||"
Fourth Line:
“Crucible? The same build does 12min clear…”
Explanation -
Same as that of first line.
