this is how all games work, and how GD also did?
Games has a design in mind, to what degree you can work with, around or break that design is totally different; it doesnt’ change the design being there.
What can change is to which extent the devs are willing to (re)balance the game with their design in mind - and the devs have been rather open about not enjoying some design aspects being 100% ignored by players…
“if you want to do X; we’re gonna make that hard for you because that’s not the intended purpose”
that was straight up the mission statement for 1.2/sunder “too much boss attack was being ignored, special attacks got ignored that wasn’t intended to/was intended to be dangerous”…
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It’s right there, in the big bolded text. Being intentionally obtuse about my point doesn’t make it not there.
Yeah, trying to avoid / anticipate 1 completely unavoidable big, meaty attack (Forcewave) that leads to near death should totally lead into another somewhat more avoidable attack that goes through your disengage rune and leads to almost certain death if you get hit by it. Obviously not all builds are hurt this much by it, but there are enough builds that will be impacted by it that it will beg the question as to whether the change is a good one or not, especially when you’re combining it with such a drastic physical resist change that the Blitz just happens to deal (there’s that big bold text again)
I can’t believe I have to be saying this, but apparently I do. Skills play differently from one another so that the “comfortable” space is different for each build. A Stun Jacks player has to be within the model to get the most of its damage, but certain casters like TSS, Grenado / Canister are comfortable in a different space entirely. Circuit breakers / one-time absorb spells like Mark of Torment are exactly for this purpose, being able to stomach ONE big hit in case you don’t space perfectly (literally nobody is demanding that they stand there and let Alex’s meteors repeatedly fall on them), but you can’t activate those if you’re already dead.
And if you want to argue that you shouldn’t be given this second chance, then what is the point of having circuit breakers / short-time absorption spells in the first place?
Bruh, this is ludicrous amounts of dishonesty here. This ain’t a 1v1 fighting game where you’re just hoping the AI doesn’t press the instakill button. There are other mobs in the picture too (and in Crucible specifically, other Nemesis abilities factor into play here). Oh, you just happen to get stunned / bodyblocked right when the massive meteor happens to come down? Sucks to be you! Just max all the stats!
Or, you know, acknowledge the fact that different builds specialize in different things and can’t max out everything they want to. And acknowledge the fact that providing band-aid fixes to certain gear just turns the game into a paint-by-numbers simulator and ruins the whole point of the game, which is specifically focusing each gear piece toward improving the build in a specific way.
Read what I wrote above. Play enough builds, long enough with each build, and you are going to be put in a situation where you can’t entirely manipulate the battle, especially when the Blitz is both fast enough and meaty enough (as in hits in all frames that it’s active) that you can put in a ton of effort of avoid the attack and still get hit by it anyway. That should not equate to instant death (even if the initial hit doesn’t kill, the DoT’s or the subsequent Forcewave / Cadence hit will kill you). Like, not even superbosses have this ability, so why are we suddenly placing Iron Maiden on this pedestal as the one mob that should have this advantage?
Even if some builds can withstand it better than others, my point is that it’s not a good design choice and will create ripple effects that go well beyond whatever high-Phys Res builds Zantai has in his mind in trying to bring down to earth.
So actually what happened? They strengthen certain skills of monsters to let us respect. But tank BDs can’t become gank BDs, so they must become stronger to tank them, otherwise their efforts to be tank to stand attacking would be all wasted. Then what will devs do? They surely insist themselves and keep strengthen monsters. Then players can only choose to strengthen tanks. In the end, ganks become victims.
By the way, another of my friend has find out a way to deal with 4 BOSSes at the same time, not avoiding most Sunders. That’s not because he’s stupid or taunting devs. That’s because it’s that BD’s advantage. It must can. Or it will become a total trash, and most tanks are the same.
It’s midnight now in China and the power’s switched off in my dorm at night. My laptop’s out of charge so I temporarily can’t continue.
Anyway, you’d better think. Can their Sunder make BDs various? Can it make us players more happier? If the change only please devs themselves, do you still think they have the right to teach you to play the game?
then build to eat it, since it’s the lesser of the 2, that’s the point; pick the thing you wanna deal with, the difference is here, one deals more dmg than the other; but can be avoided (and it was the exact same deal before btw)
then don’t use your chosen rune? - heck even if you don’t wanna not use disengage rune, or alter the distance, because controller; then use Evade… it straight up has just the distance you wont trigger her blitz “as i showed in the video staying in close range”
so either you you’re at close range; might have to deal with forcewave
or you stay at long range (silly trozan example for some reason); in which case you can now “more easy than ever” avoid her blitz… - and yes you can totally choose to feel uncomfortable and want to play maiden long range, like trozan; but then you’re also voluntarily playing into her blitz mechanic, and will then ahve to deal with that (whcih for the 4th time is easier to deal with now than ever); or you can adjust/try to get comfortable in closer distance on builds you might not normally/previously otherwise have considered it, it’s a choice open to you, and you’re picking it…
or, idono, fight under an arch, stack stun res so you still have a window to move; use evade that ignores bodyblocking…
totally, and that’s exactly how i build and play; which is why i’m playing into Maiden’s blitz mechanic of ensuring i dont’ trigger it at all, or evade it if i do…
just like i darned try my absolute hardest to always pay attention and prioritise aleks meteor, and in the rare moments where i die, like when valde does the switcheroo and TPs me into the meteor; because that attack is intended to kill you, and imo it’s not fair 50% of builds freely get to tank it, while the other 50% couldnt’ dream of getting enough stats to do so; now we all die equally… (well not really but still)
speed and distance got heavily reduced; i know; because i used to die to it constantly, and now i basicalyl dont’
plot twist, i didnt’ suddenly switch to omega tanky builds; Maiden deliberately became easier to where eve i can now (finally) manage to deal with her fairly reliably (outside cadence), to where her blitz isn’t just a hard run stopper for me; and it used to
^this is how i know you’re not adjusting to the mechanics, it’s how i know you can’t possibly have actually played the darn update, because the changes are so monumental evident that i can pilot her now, and she used to be one of the most common run enders for me because i could not deal wit her blitz on my squish toons - imo her Cadence is now way more lethal (atleast on regular shards/75-76 and below)
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they put sunder on the attacks that was always intended to be avoided or respected, meteor, zantarin shotgun
you tank then 99%; you’re not supposed to tank the special attack - which is irrelevant to being a gank build/you don’t “need” higher dps to compensate because you have the safety of the 99% duration… that’s the tradeoff you chose
and something that’s also been stated isn’t a balancing concern; we should not expect special compensation for builds “needing” to tank 4 bosses to work, it’s not what they intended, if you can, fine, but if one can’t/or an update affects it, it’s not the main design concern (atleast didn’t used to be)
pretty sure that already happened? tho evade and telegraphs was probably a combination factor there.
that depends on the players? - personally i don’t mind sunder, i have doubts about this phys res change in its current version, but i don’t think sunder needs to go either way
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so now builds will have almost same psyhical res, and whats point of that
still phys res disparity, which is why it’s sorta weird
some builds have single digit phys res nows 
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Luckily I have my phone. I continue.
You understand nothing.
Once there are 3 types of BDs:
BDⅠ has high damage and passable defense. It can kill a BOSS in 9s and then finish 4 BOSSes in less than 40s;
BDⅡ has high defense and passable damage. It may cost 20s to kill a single BOSS, but can tank 4 BOSSes’ attack and finish the fight in 40s, too;
BDⅢ is average, but it is good fit for dodge and gank. It ganks and depletes enemies’ health, and finally kills 4 BOSSes in 40s as well.
Our game then has such different types of BDs. Players can enjoy different kinds of fun.
But what are the devs doing? The stronger and stronger Sunder is bothering BDⅠ. The great reduce of Physical Resistance almost kills BDⅡ. The left BDⅢ isn’t going to benefit as well. 40 in 100 BDs may die, while many of them are interesting and special.
What do we gain? The variety of BD is hurt. The efficiency of farming is lowered. The negative feedback is increasing. And you guys believe Zantai is always right. They give us the opportunity to admire and RESPECT their nicely designed Blitz and Multiple Booming Obsidian! What a great idea! Are you kidding?
And mentioning this, you say who ignored what?
We players always NOTICE and RESPECT those so-called special skills, so we strengthen tank BDs’ defense, or using gank BDs’ dodge more carefully. So in your mind, strengthen defense to bear is called ignore, while dodge to avoid attack is called respect? How funny! If the high-defense and low-defense BDs both need to dodge 3 times in 10s, and must kill 4 BOSSes one by one, and get one-shot-killed due to your so-called disrespect, then why tank exists? For lower damage figures in case of scaring babies?
Tanks don’t deal with multiple BOSSes in every case, but Zantai think they should be able in NO CASE.
Some BDs has high defense, while others may have lower. That’s their trait. If you wanna change, why not strengthen the latter? Why must weaken the former or even both?
The developers serves players, not the Iron Maiden or Benn’Jahr. Unless they are monsters themselves, taking pleasure in torturing instead of pleasing players.
We don’t need them to strengthen characters or weaken enemies. Just don’t make GD upsetting. Is that anything wrong?
I love the game, so do you, and so do Crate. It is not because we make up excuses to justify Zantai that GD becomes better. Zantai can’t be always right. It’s because the terrible ideas get questioned and abolished, and because nice ideas get proposed and adopted, that we players get satisfied, developers feel accomplished, and our game become popular.
Don’t say that silly respect again. It’s the worst excuse I’ve seen.
Have you heard these people? 
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At least your increasing 30% Sunder can’t be reasonable. But he seems not to think so.
not how build balancing is defined, but ok
i mean, i’ve been playing the patch, and so far, i’ve no issue with maiden or benji 
^doesn’t mean that’s gonna apply to all builds i’ll try, but so far i’m seeing people not adapting to the changes, and reacting more based on paper than actual clears…
except the point is that wasn’t the goal, which is what i’ve mentioned several times now.
always “outstatting” everything wasn’t the intended aim, and Sunder then sorta hammered that design philosophy in, with the this change seemingly aiming to even out more general build stat deviation. (atleast it seem to be the goal tho i’m curious how tanky builds doesn’t benefit more than squish builds)
i genuinely don’t think that’s their goal, nor seems like it ever has been
And if we go by trackrecord, “every bad patch/nerf”; it’s so far worked out - and anything that was absolutely heinously wrong they have reverted before
Again, so far, from what i’m judging, i’m not seeing people actually react to the update gameplay wise, but the usual patch notes reaction; read X get upset before trying/adapting ingaming - same deal in the past
^and everytime the same scenario was present, towards the end of playtest things got ironed out, because Crate is not completely incompetent at their jobs, nor unwilling to listen,
and their general trackrecord/past updates should indicate it’s not always as bad as it seem, and usually turn out ok if not downright good, so have a little more faith + testing runs run their course and data relevant feedback gets compiled “like usual”
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Don’t misunderstand me guy. I wasn’t despising you, but most players are really upset about thev1.2.1.0 change now. Hope you haven’t desided to do that.
I really need to figure out how you guys poll most players.
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So you think we are being happy with the 20 lower phy res and 30% higher Sunder and weakened life regeneration?
You are so cool dude. SO COOL.
Thank you!
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Dude. They’re reducing physical damage from the mobs as well. Relax, it’s a play test and there will be changes.
Also @Zantai, roughly how much is the reduction in damage done? It feels like 25-30% but it’d be nice to get a number for now.
Cheers.
I don’t know if this idea has already been expressed or not, but here it is:
People don’t like it when their characters are weakened.
Because everyone remained at the previous level, but we were lowered, we are like some kind of scumbags.
But you can go from the other side: strengthen bosses, strengthen other classes.
If the boss is strengthened, then he is strengthened for everyone at once, everything is fair here. And if they strengthen the lagging class, then it’s like extending a helping hand to the weak - the sense of justice does not protest.
This will not upset us either (my favorite pet breeder has been humiliated far and wide for the second patch in a row), and will spur interest in those classes that have been strengthened and for which new prospects have opened up!
I don’t know, maybe, of course, my approach is more difficult to implement than yours.
If you want to ponder the merits of “no nerfs, only buffs”, the internet is rife with the topic, including this forum. Strengthening monsters is trivial, and hardly feels any better in that context. Sometimes it even feels worse. Not to mention it does not help weaker builds at all, it only brings the strongest builds in line. The gap remains the same and can potentially make the weakest builds completely unviable.
In this case, however, yes, player Physical Resist was nerfed, but monster Physical damage was too. This isn’t a blanket nerf. We are happy to hear feedback on where issues arise and will act accordingly. We are not interested in armchair patch notes analysis.
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I would like to echo @Paikis, can you provide a ball park number for the reductions in mobs phys damage?
And
@Gnomish_Inquisition has a good point. What’s the point of having single digit res? Seems better to remove and adjust at this point. This is like the dark one set absorption change that almost occurred.
Otherwise I like the idea behind the changes.
I’m not sure I want to give exact numbers because people will read way too much into them, haha. We’re looking for your experience with the changes in practice. The numbers could be gibberish for all it matters, which is why we always emphasize gameplay experiences over numerical theorycrafting in feedback:
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