I moved here from Reddit because i prefer this slower and more permanent organization and Structure.
Reddit stuff just get forgotten in a day or two
Reddit is basically anonymous facebook that has a different breed of toxicity. And nothing beats the organization of a dedicated game forum.
In games I use primarily use reddit if:
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The game has no official/popular fan forum (i.e. dota)
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I’m not good enough at the game that the only thing I can contribute to the forums are dumb questions (Total war warhammer 2)
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The game is already finished by the time I started playing it (Witcher 3)
For the rest I go forums/youtube.
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I’ve heard that and it really is awkward. Still I posted my Conjurer there:
I personally don’t have Discord and am rarely active on Reddit, mostly answering questions by new players. But I like the structure and the resources of the forum.
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Tried to contribute on Reddit with a positive attitude:
- posts removed / shadowbanned unless mods/algorithms like you
- after first day or two your posts are basically dead, no one will ever read them again
- little correlation between the quality of posts and their visibility
- cannot embed a video when trying to make a post but when making a video post I cannot add text? 3 limited modes of creating posts instead of 1 good
I dislike this automatization, artifical rules, limitations and philosophy. It’s basically the opposite of what this forum is.
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Yeah I could never get into reddit. Everything about it just feels off and the structure and flow of a thread feels hideous. I don’t mind going to it if something in a search leads me that way but actually using it? Nah, I’m good.
Plus, their GD reddit rules - as noted above - are just a bit of wtf?
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Wtf that’s kinda shitty. Whatever your opinion on the forum is, it can’t be denied that majority of good builds and guides are here. I guess one of my questions got answered.
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Why is this on the last post after the move? Weird, this was before many other posts in the original thread.
Anyway, Reddit is a good platform if you’re more of a reader than a poster. Things go so fast (on big subs at least) that you always have something fresh to read. Post quality isn’t really that high so if you’re picky it won’t be your thing too.
But if you’re a poster you basically need to conform to the hive mind of that specific sub. Or else you get downvoted/shadowbanned/banned.
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Reddit mods 
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For my part, I did have a good number of my posts and threads removed for the exact reason and even ended up locking antlers with one of the mods there.
Somewhere along the line, they just let me be though, but not sure exactly what changed. But yeah, they have this weird policy about wanting content on the Sub rather than linking to outside sources. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with wanting that, but Reddit is not user friendly for such stuff like guides and such atleast in my opinion.
Alright, since you guys have this conversation, I can’t help myself but ask: why all the obsession about beginner builds? I’ve seen a lot of people writing “just started the game 10 minutes ago, can someone link me a viable build?” I mean, is this what people do in games nowadays, follow someone’s guide to the letter?
Not to diminish the amount of work and input of everyone involved, but don’t you think you kinda condone people not wishing to experience the game fully by providing a wealth of step by step handholdimg materials?
Cause I remember myself starting GD with skeleton Ritualist and picking a fight with Mogdrogen on Veteran. Hoo boy, was I at a loss of words when I got one-shot in one millisecond. I wouldn’t dare to even attempt this fight again until my characters are fully equipped and me knowing what I’m doing. Same deal with Ravager and Callagadra.
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Can’t say that it’s an ‘obsession’ - no more than the absolute glut of endgame builds that exist? Why should experienced players be the only people with information they can digest at their fingertips?
That’s more on the end-user, in my mind, than it is on the guide writer. It’s up to them if they want to follow someone’s material to the letter. It’s also up to them to actually learn something from it about how to properly construct their own builds and decrease their dependency on guides in the future.
And the way I see it the more people that we get into the game - no matter their understanding or “ability” - then the more people you may get actually contributing to the game and the community in some fashion further down the line… and the stronger the community the better for all.
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No one has forced any one to follow guides. But there is a request for guides in ARPGs and other games. I think a very often asked question in the “real” end-game build threads are “is there a leveling guide?” “what gear can and I should I use before I get the BiS items” “how to make devotion tree?” and so on.
There are even guides on how to do ravager, crate, lokarr etc. Some people do not have the time or energy to “figuring out” the game. Why do we have Grim Tools? and so on.
I bet you also at some point have looked at some kind of guide in your Grim Dawn “career”.
We can take things even further “why do we have a forum where ppl can ask questions and share information, don’t you guys want to experience the game fully by themselves?”
When someone asks me “I just bought the game what should I do” I always answer “Just play it - if you like and think you need some help, there are guides you can consult”
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Because you become experienced the more you playe the game? If they follow blindly what is written by “veterans”, the’ll remain at this “noob” level. That’s the reason why topics with “how do I respec from constellation” and “stuck at Krieg following the guide X” pop-up. People are not willing to give any thought and experimentation of their own, thus ruining their experience, thus getting bored/frustrated with the game, and thus telling others not to bother with it. I almost missed GD because I read a couple of reviews saying the game was boring and bland.
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Which leads us back to this…
Just because there are guides for beginners and just because people use those guides doesn’t by any stretch of the imagination mean that they can’t learn from those guides. Are there people that just use them without any thought or real insight? Sure. But there are also people that have the ability to learn from the material.
If we followed your thinking then elementary, middle, and high schools wouldn’t even exist. Oh well, sink or swim Lil’ Timmy?
At the end of the day Grim Dawn is a fairly complex game with lots of moving parts. Not every person learns the same way.
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But that is on their end, no the guide makers “fault”. Guides are meant to help you and make it a bit easier for you, not meant to hold your hand every second. Grim Dawn is a fairly complicated game, and I am not sure everyone has the amount of patience and time it requires to “figure it out”.
Perhaps we should just close all schools too, just let everyone learn and experience things on their own?
Some people prefer to use guides, some do not, some learn best by trying things out on their own, some learn best by following examples. People are different. Just because you can not see the usefulness of guides doesn’t mean there are thousands of other players that really enjoy and learn by guides.
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Not entirely true, I became a much better player after following some of the builds from the forums, made me understand why ppl are using specific devotions/components/skills on certain masteries. Without them I would still probably use retaliation components on vitality casters. But when I first started playing, I went completely blind. I saw nightblade and thought “oh this is rogue from TQ and it does cold damage, cool”. And then I played a really whacky SS spellbreaker.
I became more interested in endgame when FG got released, when I got a better feeling for the game. That’s when I started reading guides.
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Yeah I played my first two chars completely blind. Then I decided to do some research and become “good” at this game, some beginner guides actually helped me alot to see why my builds sucked so hard xD
And to be fair, the beginner guides I have seen posted here in this forum do explain why they make mastery choices they did, why skills, why devotions, why those items etc. They are not “do this and you will become god”… at least that is what I am to do, explain my choices. And because i is a forum guide, people are welcome to ask questions and get answered.
And still people link them guides on first request. Which leads to dumbed-down ARPG games like Diablo 3, where you don’t even need to think how to “git gud”, which seems like a whole point of this genre of games. You start weak and make your way to demolishing hordes of enemies.
How did people play Diablo 2 back then? It also has some tricky mechanics which are not explained in the game. Grim Dawn, on the other hand, is pretty generous in providing the player with information in-game.
Mechanics guides are totally fine and great, actually. That’s what people should link.
On the Steam forum I often do link people directly to mechanics guides AND beginner build compilations, such as Nery’s. I am a strong believer in people having access to all the material they need to learn from in the hopes that eventually they will know how to begin finding that information themselves.
I merely point them in the right direction for that journey.
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That is not the guides “fault” is it? But rather a symptom of our society that we spoon fed everyone from the start. As I wrote, I always just tell people to play the game and have fun with it first. And if they think they need guides, I can point to them.
I can not really see the logical connection here. Grim Dawn as a game has not gotten dumbed down because of the existence of build guides.
Imagine the state of Grim Dawn without anyone sharing their builds. Think about it for a while.