Should Hammer&Shield Builds with M Siegebreaker get nerfed?

With so many flat damage bumping up in v1.1.9.2, Hammer&Shield Builds with M Siegebreaker are now monsters!

The formula is: Bargoll’s Root + Mark of the Voracious One + M Siegebreaker + Oathkeeper, and the other class could be any one with %phys damage, flat phys damage(including other types which can be converted to phys easily) and/or -%phys res. As a result, they would turns out both super good at damage and super tanky.

According to that formula, I have three builds tested:
Paladin: Paladin, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Shieldbreaker: Shieldbreaker, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.3) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator
Warlord: Warlord, Level 100 (GD 1.1.9.2) - Grim Dawn Build Calculator

With these 3 builds, finishing CR in 4:30 or SR75-76 in 6:45 is just a piece of cake.

All these builds can beat Ravagers and Cala, with about 1:30 to 2:00, and only a few potions are needed.

So to speak, should something in that formula get some nerf?

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If a build has 4:30 average clear with high shard potential and facetanking 3 major Celestials, that, of course, sounds OP.

But usually when people call for nerfs they present some evidence of overperformance. I’ve also played multiple shield builds over the past month. From the links presented i do not see how “finishing Crucible 4:30 is a piece of cake” for these builds. The Paladin has 153% AS, like… what? Not to mention absence of Deathstalker really tanks Crucible timer for a low aoe phys build.

Even though phys dmg performs well now, 4:30 is still not an easy feat, especially for a build with multiple suboptimal gear choices in terms of dmg. I’d like to see some videos supporting the claims.

I’ve tested this shield on my Shieldbreaker which has Watcher of Erulan and while the output is lower this shield’s dmg is also good.

So i went to pay a visit to a dummy to see what’s what and turned out SS hits twice as opposed to the description, so it’s effectively and AoE Smite. Was it always like that? I assumed SS was fixed during the last pass when the shield flat was properly applied to the hit. I’m not sure if it was intended for SS to hit twice. But then if you halve the SS dmg now S&B builds will go back to the dumpster.

Youtube is blocked to Chinese Players, so I can’t offer you much evidence on that. But if you have access to Bilibili.com, I have some videos in my collection.

Paladin Ravager 77s:恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN 1.1.9.3 帕拉丁 锤盾狂热【返璞归真,平平淡淡】_单机游戏热门视频
Paladin Cala 85s: 恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN 1.1.9.3 帕拉丁 锤盾狂热【返璞归真,平平淡淡】_单机游戏热门视频
Paladin SR75-76 6:10 :恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN 1.1.9.3 帕拉丁 锤盾狂热【返璞归真,平平淡淡】_单机游戏热门视频

WL Ravager 68s: 【恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN】1.1.9.2BD——领主们_哔哩哔哩bilibili_攻略
WL Cala 93s: 【恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN】1.1.9.2BD——领主们_哔哩哔哩bilibili_攻略
WL SR75-76 6:15: 【恐怖黎明 GRIM DAWN】1.1.9.2BD——领主们_哔哩哔哩bilibili_攻略
(note: this WL is a cheaper version with fewer greens. GT: a2EYmXl2)

I’m doing Shieldbreaker myself and I will upload my video to Bilibili too. I would post it here as soon as my video get approved.

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I know this. It’s like this:

When a hit activate SS, your weapon on your right hand still attacks but doesn’t trigger SS, which means 158% x 120% weapon damage for RF; and your shield on your left hand attacks and trigger SS, which means 158% x 120% x 165% weapon damage for RF. Finally these two parts fall together to be the hit.

When a hit activate Smite, your weapon on right hand and shield on left hand both trigger Smite, which means 158% x 120% x 138% weapon damage for RF.

That is to say, % weapon damage Modifiers to Smite values more than to SS, if they are of a same number. Of course your shieldbreaker with M Watcher of Erulan could perform better damage.

Tips: For Hammer&Shield builds, both Smite and SS would charge Cadence twice, so Warborn Set Cadence WL with M Siegebreaker and Mark of the Voracious One is also a monster, and it’s very cheap.(https://www.grimtools.com/calc/mN4PJz5N)

But there are two things I’d like to mention:

  1. There is no maximum all res on M Doombringer
  2. There is no phys res on M Watcher of Erulan if you don’t pick up an pistol.

So Builds with M Siegebreaker should be tankier and would thus perform better when pushing SR.

Yeah, in light of dual hit from SS Siegebreaker does seem a little too strong. Maybe its phys res should be toned down or replaced with some other stat.

I wanna say i don’t really get those Calla kills without pharma or anything. Your health barely moves. Is there some sort of an exploit? Warlord doesn’t even have Bulwark exclusive. Very weird. Also it has much higher health than in the link and Counter Strike.

I just tried her with my Shieldbreaker (with Siegebreaker) absolutely tuned into dmg which has much higher dps than both your Paladin an Warlord. And i can’t kill her with pharma, not even close, and more importantly, the estimate kill time is HIGHER than on your builds. What’s the secret? I’m not that experienced in Celestial kills.


Also wanna see some Crucible runs with those builds. I’ve tried my SB with Siegebreaker, and performance drops quite a bit because of low AS%.

Just tried it with your Warlord and it does work. Very strange. Maybe trauma stacking pays out? The dmg tooltip is so low. Maybe SS hits big targets multiple times. Honetsly, no idea how these shield builds perform so well.

Will try Crucible now.

My thoughts is the combination of more than 4k armor and over 90 base pierce resist. The pierce overcap should be enough to cancel Calla RR with average to about 88% pierce (more with high roll). Notice on the video each time siegebreaker is used, the yellow buff immediately reset, my guess Dryad was put on siegebreaker for 100% uptime.

Quite a suprising results I say considering that Calla totally wreck that build physical resistance (-18% phy res, 25 flat RR, 24% RR), but armor and max pierce can be enough to reduce it damage to tiny bits. Siegebreaker with its 0.7 cd block reduce it even more.

Got 5 mins run in Crucible with 2 Marked (+total dmg), pretty close to maximum performance of this build. Average in my hands will be not lower than 5:15.

Combined with no pharma Calla facetank that does seem a tad too strong, maybe replacing phys res with some other stat on the shield will bring it in line.

Idk but maybe we could have some op builds for shields… For so long using shield felt like auto handicap.

“Whisper words of wisdom - let it be”

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Phys retal: So for what reason was I nerfed version by version? :thinking:

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Yeah I’m sorry. I meant non retal shield builds :slight_smile:

Physical in general is having its day in sun but this is some broken shit :ghost:

Fast crucible + all supers and deep SR has always been in line for the bat

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Is it 2017 again or is my calendar wrong?

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one of my friend told me that WL with THE FORMULA is still OP in PT v1.1.9.4. no pharma facetank Cala still.
guess THE FORMULA needs more nerfs.
I will try it myself later.