So 85 and thats it?

I hit 85 today and you don’t gain anymore exp and you don’t lose exp when you die?

EXP is pointless on this char now?

Haven’t checked but I assume my devotion skills still gain exp until they are maxed.

Correct and yeah you’ll still gain exp on devotions until they’re maxed. You may now spam farm or make new characters :stuck_out_tongue:

I think, there are two motivation killers in the game…

First is, when you hit LVL 85 und your Char isnt gaining any attribute and skill points anymore. At least there may be some devoition skill to level still, but why not have an open level scale and allow the char to gain further attribute points? It could be done really really slow, so you need a lot of XP for the next LVL, but then it wouldnt be useless to kill the trash. For my long term motivation this would be great and it wouldnt change much of the game balance as well in my opinion.

Second downer comes, when the last devotion skill ist maxed. Then every trash mob in my way just feels like a pain…

I agree, reaching level cap so easily kills motivation. And even worse - it makes killing trash mobs worthless (cause their loot sucks), forcing players to skip trash mobs and kill only heroes/bosses, which looks pretty retarded for me. A good hero should kill everything on his wake!

And how exactly is this different from your experience with other (A)RPGs?
This game could have used better bosses (TQ style), I’ll give you that, but otherwise it does its job pretty well.

I wouldn’t call it “easily”. Not everyone plays that much. I like having a finishing point for a character so that I can feel like I’ve made a successful build and can move on to a new one now.

Ok, let’s take Titan Quest. I’ve finished it with around 10 different characters, and none reached level cap. I even dont know, what level cap is in TQ, and how many time it takes to reach it.
In Diablo2 and Path of Exile, it’s the same. You can reach certain level pretty easily, but eventually, leveling up takes more and more experience. For normal player, monsters in those game are always worth exprerience. In GD? After you reach max level, killing trash is a waste of time.
As i already said, easy level cap hurts game balance too.

the level cap of IT is 75 and it takes forever…

what good is it to theoretically still be able to gain levels but in reality it takes so long that you never do ? It certainly does not entice me to reach that cap and apparently the same was true for you… so in reality it does not offer anything over a cap you actually can reach. The practical cap for IT was around 63-66, the actual cap was irrelevant

As i already said, easy level cap hurts game balance too.

how so ? If anything it helps balance as you know what level people will be in the end. If a few people are 10 levels ahead of everyone else because they grind forever either they become OP relative to the content or the content is hard for the other 98% (you should balance for the 98% obviously). In either case balance is hurt by the level cap that is difficult to reach, not the one that is easy to reach.

The highest level i’ve got in TQ is 71, if i remember correctly, and took a shitload of time for that. But at least, i gained few levels above “66 softcap”, which is nice too. At least, you dont feel like you dont gaining exp at all.

And no, few extra levels wont make characters OP (if they arent OP already). It doesnt happen is PoE, and it wont happen in GD either. At least, not with that skill system. Crate could even remove OA/DA bonuses for several last levels, if they really wanted to.

If Crate implemented better game balance, and made killing trash more worthwhile (loot-wise)… But now, it doesnt look healthy.

which probably is why you never made it past 71 :wink:

But at least, i gained few levels above “66 softcap”, which is nice too. At least, you dont feel like you dont gaining exp at all.

I only reached 67 on one char, because I farmed a lot with it. It definitely was not worthwhile, if the cap had been 65 I still would have done the exact same thing

I prefer the GD approach to level cap over the TQ one, you can reach it rather than ignoring it outright because you never will.

And no, few extra levels wont make characters OP

you have 20 skill points more than the other guy, you at least should be more powerful. In any case, my point was that a cap that everyone reaches is not negatively affecting balance, if anything the opposite is true. That still stands.

To be fair though using TQIT as an example is rather useless since it’s an expansion.

How long did it take to get to 65 which was the cap for the normal game?

“few” and “20” are quite different numbers, you know.
Sure, if game was balanced better (i.e. trash mobs were worth killing for their loot or crafting materials), then no problem. But it’s balanced as if level cap should’nt be rreached so easily. That’s the actual problem. As i already said, if hero just skips all trash and run straght to boss, or if he just “farms” for treasure troves, then it’s something off here. In propperly balanced game, a hero should kill foes he encounters, that’s the gameplay i would like to see encouraged.

I know, I never used them interchangeably :wink:

‘few’ was people at level 75 in IT, 20 are GD skillpoints for 10 levels that presumably you would still need to grind

Sure, if game was balanced better (i.e. trash mobs were worth killing for their loot or crafting materials), then no problem. But it’s balanced as if level cap should’nt be rreached so easily.

not sure I agree with this

As i already said, if hero just skips all trash and run straght to boss, or if he just “farms” for treasure troves, then it’s something off here. In propperly balanced game, a hero should kill foes he encounters, that’s the gameplay i would like to see encouraged.

not gonna happen, or at least only because it is a personal choice, whether you increase the level cap or not

The XP needed for a new level are so high, they might as well be infinite, which brings us to where we are today. I never grinded / farmed for levels, always for gear in TQ/IT, the same is true in GD

Having an easily reachable hard level cap certainly takes a little away from the game. This is the first ARPG that I have played that is like this. Before you refer to Diablo, keep in mind that although there is a level cap, you still need exp. for paragon levels. There are also many reasons you still kill trash.

That being said, the game is very new and I can understand the need to minimize power creep. I imagine that if they continue to support the game, there will be a need to exp. in the future.

If in 6 months this is still in place, I see that as a tremendous detriment to the long term viability of this game.

No idea, never reached it before IT :wink:

I ended up around level 62 and got to maybe 64 with a lot of grinding, and again it was not for the levels (which were pretty much worthless) but for gear, same as it is today in GD

Then you haven’t played very many as the newer games like D3 are the exceptions.

Keep in mind that Paragon levels were a secondary addition well after release and just imo, a terrible concept to keep people feeding the Blizztroll based on the always online model of D3. GD is not based on the always online model and has several other design considerations that don’t necessarily fit well with endless leveling. There’s so much that D3 did wrong, for me (Paragon levels being one of them), that when you allude to it you’re setting yourself up for a very flame-bait prone discussion and colors my view as to the quality of your suggestion.

At any rate, Crate has given strong indications that they’re planning an expansion with increased level cap, additional classes, content, etc. I’d be surprised if it came out in 6 months, since they don’t work on our time schedules (and shouldn’t).

Weird I have never been forced to skip trash.

there will be an expansion which most likely raises the level cap, but probably not in 6 months

As to long term detriment, if all that keeps you playing is grinding the same char for hundreds of hours, that already is pretty detrimental to long term viability, just look at D3… I much rather start a new char or move on to another game than do that, so not having that takes nothing away, it might even add incentive to reach an obtainable max level, something I never bothered with in D2, D3 or TQ

Skipping trash? Who are we, Kripparian?

No, killing trash is almost always worthwhile unless you’re M.I. hunting (in which case it may be more worthwhile than ever). I’ve gotten most of my Legendaries from trash.

This is not an MMO or persistent community driven game. It’s just an ARPG. You don’t play it to devote the rest of your life to it. You play it like other old school games: until you stop having fun. And that’s fine.

I like being able to complete or finish games in some fashion. There are lots of games out there that want to drain your time and money already.

GD doesn’t need “long term viability”.