The raven has 11% weapon damage to its attacks. But how I understood flat damage bonuses, is that they are scaled with weapon damage. Does this mean the 330 electrocute dot of the raven loses 89% value? O.o
I’m trying to understand why the raven has an autoattack at all if all damage bonuses to it loses 89% of all total added damage. This would also mean devotion procs from its autoattack is also scaled down no?
I just can’t wrap my head around this. I mean doesn’t the 11% wpn damage on the raven make its autoattacks pretty much useless as they have no scaling potential at all?
bird uses a projectile attack that does flat dmg, so its own attacks are fine afaik
whether or not that “skill”'s amount of WD plays in to something like proccing devos i don’t know for sure, but i’m guessing it has 100%wd to be used for those, actual dmg amount being irrelevant, and the zap spit skill then just uses 11% of that, - the storm orb not being its weapon attack counterpart, but a separate skill that is then used as “auto attack”
^think of it as raven being a demo, holding X weap, but maining stun jacks spam
that’s sorta how i understood it
Hmm so if I understood you right, the 11% wpn damage does not affect its innate auto attack damage? As for devotions it just kinda sucks if they are wasted when procced on its attacks. The lightning strike should be fine though. Ahhh… MAYA I NEED YOU!
the way i gathered it from zantai is, the bird has weapon dmg, it just doesn’t use it, like other pets does for auto attack,
instead the bird uses an actual skill, like spam jacks, and uses that as “auto attack”,
so any WD scaling/proccing should be fine, how much its WD dmg value is we don’t know since that’s not listed anywhere/GT pet database doesn’t parse it correct
I remember reading that thread but couldn’t really find an answer so I looked into the game files
petskill_raven_innate1.dbr does not contain any flat damage stats for the raven, they are all set at zero while in exactly the same file for the hound he gets flat physical and fire. This means by my interpretation that as long as the raven doesn’t receive any flats elsewhere (or from its own storm spirit skill) that 11% is doing 0 damage and indeed the raven will do only 11% of any flats received.
Also grimtools is perfectly correct if you ask me, the raven weapon attack is by default set at 0 damage.
zantai said GT probably bases that value of basic attacks, which the bird doesn’t use,
so sounds like it’s not the correct value (if there is any at all outside global flats), either way it sounded like GT was wrong on birb’s weapon dmg
GT has likely read the same file as i did. If a normal player character always casts stormfire, it is not using its weapon attack but it still exists and 40% is added to the spell. I think it is the same for the bird, the weapon attack does exist but it is never used and by default it does 0 damage. So GT is then correct.
aye, but that doesn’t really change much from that thread
since, if it only counts global flats, it means that WD scaling on main attack and lightning strike is basically 0 until you get a ton of pet flats, making 70%wd scaling “useless” during leveling/before , since 70% of 0 is still 0,
yes correct, but since I had previous experiences with GT always being ‘right’ about what is in the gamefiles. I had some doubt about zantai’s post that seems to suggest GT had messed things up.
would be kinda strange tho, not saying Z is infallible, but he is the guy sitting doing all the tables, so would expect him to know what which stat is where, at least to some degree (so he can nerf them better )
not saying you are wrong either, since Zantai never confirmed or denied it in that thread,
it just seems strange to me to give something 11 and 70% scaling respectively, to then have it scale off 0 dmg, for a significant portion of the game, - potentially longer if one thinks mend flesh sounds good and waits a long time with taking Storm Spirit
yes but if you think about it, if the raven did have weapon dmg and it is derived from another file, probably lightning or physical, then it should be listed in the pet skill just like summon hellhound
So does the 11% mean all sources of flat damage to raven gets scaled down to 0.11? Do devotions get weaker also on Raven? Or don’t anyone know?
Maybe a developer can help out, seeing how this was asked before w/o a certain conclusion. I just want to know if devotions are gimped on raven, and/or if flat damage is useless on it.
devotions don’t get weaker as they are based of base stats not the attack that procced it
so any effect would be applied in full either way, it’s just that if the value is 0/global flats only, it just means the actual WD dmg part on a devo proc would not be very big
say you wanted the raven to heal itself so you attached Bat/Twin Fangs to birb, it would still do the dmg listed, scaled off its own dmg (pierce/vitality part) the actual WD dmg component would then just be small/based off global pet flats - assuming the base value is indeed 0
Hmm… so only devotion procs WPN% is crap for raven’s autoattacks only, while the lightning strike, is withing “normal” pet damage range? And flat damage bonuses are weakened on its autoattack, meaning that things like arcanist overload dots are really bad for it? In that damage over time (as with overload IEE) are also affected by wpn% scaling?
So for a dot pet build, the raven’s lightning strike is very powerful, but the autoattacks are not, so for a dot pet build the raven would only provide huge dots occationally - while the auto attacks are pretty much useless in applying any meaningful dot damage?
devotion procs WD is unrelated to ravens auto attacks
%WD on a devotion skill will hinge on whether or not Ravens base WD value is 0, or just “unknown” to us, but any devo will apply its WD in full regardless of the dmg value
yes
also worth to note, that assuming pet attacks follow regular rules, the lightning strike WD dot application will override auto attack dot application, as same source DoT (WD) don’t stack
Each Projectile of the Auto attack (Birb gets 5 at lvl 26), does 11% of the Flat dmg bonus by default.
This value only applies to the projectiles and nothing else.
So if you can manage to hit all 5 projectiles on the same target, the Birb deals 55% of Flat damage in total.
The reason why Bysmiel’s Mindweaver is a staple in pretty much every Birb build (or atleast my builds) is because it adds +8% flat damage to each projectile resulting in 19x5= 95% of total damage done.
I however am not sure how it works with DoTs. Unless the DoT from each projectile is counted separately, you do end up with a net loss from that though Lightning Strike will overwrite it due to having higher weapon damage.
Also, no idea on how innate flat damage stuff works for Familiar since it is the only pet afaik without a default “auto attack”.
With level 26 Familiar, if you have no ‘added damage’, a single storm orb will deal 240-262 lightning damage, and 660 electrocute damage over 2 seconds (before % damage bonuses)
The third skill on the Familiar tree, Storm Spirit, is an aura that among other things provides flat elemental damage. At level 22 it provides 66 elemental damage. By default, Storm Orb applies 11% of ‘weapon damage’ to the attack, so capped Storm Spirit would provide each Storm Orb 11% of that 66 damage (again, before % damage bonuses)
The 3 piece set bonus from Bysmiel’s Trinkets provides 20 Burn/Frostbite/Electrocute damage over 2 seconds as a Bonus to all pets. 11% of that 20 is added to each Storm Orb.
Bysmiel’s Mindweaver works slightly differently. It provides 100 Electrocute damage over 2 seconds to Summon Familiar. While it is not entirely clear from the item descriptions, things that provide damage modifications to Summon Familiar apply to the familiar’s Storm Orb skill, so each orb would get the full 100, and not 11% of that 100.
Similarly, Bysmiel’s Mindweaver has +8% weapon damage to Summon Familiar. This also modifies the Familiar’s Storm Orb skill so that it will now provide 19% of added damage instead.
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