Well who could they be?? which celestial gods? I wonder!!!..well we know Korvaak and Emperion …Korvaak said brother and sister…betrayed !!! mean multiple celestials…others like Aeons and Menhir or Azrakaa ( I an not sure she is a celestial ) ??? My old Theory is something like ; Those; who won the war , were Arkovian gods!!! and their leader was Storm-serpent Now turned in to Leviathan !!!
the dying uroboruuk stated in one of the conversation options with him, that he had lived through the times where gods were absent and many ascendants ruled cairn. so the arkovian ‘gods’ could just be arkovian ascendants hoarding remains of celestial powers to become ‘gods’ among the arkovians. but uroboruuk’s curse must have rid them easily.
it is also worth noting that we don’t really know if the korvan empire and the arkovian empire live in the same time period, or arkovian empire is the younger of the two. if arkovian empire is younger than korvan empire, then the arkovian doesn’t have ‘true’ celestial gods. because korvaak would have never tolerate another celestials setting up rival empire to his own in his planet.
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well may be that cause the war of gods ? Some Celestians do not like rule of …Old three(Emperion, Korvaak and Menhir ) yes old three gods before the witch gods take their thrones…Well Korvaak didnt mention Menhir … I wonder why?? we know Emperion vanished .but Menhir ??? Emissary said … He was a priest of Menhir but the three show him the truth !!! What does he means what is the truth???
its plausible the war of the gods happened because some celestials doesn’t like the way empy and his co-rulers rule the universe. menhir doesn’t seem like the type to rebel against empy, due to his protective & caring nature to cairn. his pantheon is also very close to empy’s ecclesiarchy in the erulan empire. which brings to question what happened to menhir in the end.
i dunno, there’s not much info on menhir right now. gotta wait for gd 2.
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makes me wonder how exactly does the luminari differentiate between legal & illegal magics, because luminari allows:
- gildam arcanum’s arcanist magic
- empyrion/menhir worshippers’ holy magic
- erulan army’s demolitionist division state-regulated alakablam
- nightblade brotherhoods’ edgy barber magic (legality seems questionable)
then again, luminari sometimes sucks in detecting illegal magic within their own ranks. judging by the number of rogue inquisitors sets (kinda like radical inquisitors of warhammer 40k)
hmm… if the 3 thugs choose to stop hiding and rule erulan in the open, how would they define legal & illegal magic?
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We know that the Luminari works with the Gildam Arcanum so they likely oversee what they do and ensure there are no breakouts.
The same is likely true for any religious worshippers (as they are also known to stamp out any religion that isn’t approved of in the empire).
Demolitionists as well are employed by Erulan’s army so don’t see why they wouldn’t agree with the bulk of them, except for ones that go rogue again like Valdun, though that is no different to a soldier in an army deserting their people - it happens.
Nightblades are a trickier bunch to understand. They were originally a bunch of mercenaries that are trained in their order’s method of fighting and unique magic which has been kept secret. Anyone taking part whether they are born into the order or request training as an Inquisitor (if this is even allowed) would presumably have to swear an oath to not share the Nightblade order’s teaching. I imagine there would be some cooperation or want to train a Nightblade in the Luminari ways in modern times given that some of them like Ulgrim have moved to help the Erulan Empire as Spies.
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i wish there were more lore about the demolitionist division of erulan army, due to their strong connection to ulzuin (ulzuin’s devoters have their own sets).
perhaps the higher lords of erulan and luminari knows the high risk of employing unpredictable pyromaniac soldiers, but they need their powers as ‘military grenadiers’ to keep the arcanist ‘military sorcerers’ power in check. science vs magic…
yes… demolitionists are ironically the only mastery in grim dawn that rely greatly on realistic science for combat. demolitionists’ strong connection to gunpowder seem to play some part to a surge of science development from arkovian’s ancient-medieval tech to erulan’s industrial age gunpowder-coal tech (who knows which empire 1st use firearms after arkovia. the game lore jumps from arkovia to erulan)
ulzuin is the god of science then. what a weird evolution (from god of ceremonial healing+great warrior>god of destructive vengeance>god of science (EXPLOSION SCIENCE)).
boy oh boy. i wish gd 2 would reveal when was the 1st firearm appear in cairn, and the events surrounding it. hopefully no dwarfs/gnomes are involved, because that’s already overdone in many fantasy settings.
wait, what if the grobles was the 1st that invent firearms?
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well the Amber Clan !!! why not 
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wait, what if ulzuin hides among the amber groble clan? nobody will see that coming because its so bizarre!
the idea that grobles might’ve been the one who discover firearms 1st? kinda makes me wonder who actually invent/discover something significant to a world if looked through differents perspectives. like how colombus was said to be the 1st to discover america, but there are some reasonable debates about it, but in actuality its just a random mediterranean pirate gang that stumble across america 1st.
Now I thought ilzuin is a Sauron like character (eye of ulzuin) that we still don’t know what 3 witch god do to him… may be they turn into something others never recognize… I am not sure he is the laser evil now…and what is the role of founding Erulan Empire… but if he tun into Sauron like character, he may give in to chaos!!! now he is a fiery destructive god!! whose all savage creatures worship!! also pyromaniacs too !!! still he also take a role of long gone promodial, like protector of Crain !! Menhir !!! may be that is the truth the emissary talking about!!! but thats all speculations !!
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Ulzuin jokes and potential memes aside, one thing that has to be remembered about ulzuin is his past loyalty to his ‘father’ (celestial progenitor?) empyrion.
But who knows how ulzuin treat empyrion after ulz found out empyrion was gone forever when ulz need him to help korvaak against the 3 witchketeers.
Considering his ragequit display that creates the eternal (?) volcano ‘eye of ulzuin’, he might have chosen to forsake empyrion and go independent to spread destructive vengeance across cairn.
Or maybe he still had some shred of loyalty to empyrion, and secretly helps out the erulan people (who mainly worship empyrion) to rise from tribal city states into an industrial empire.
That reminds me, why does korvaak didn’t say anything about ulzuin except that one part in his rumination lore note, where he’s angry with ulz because ulz is not present when he’s being usurped… though probably korvaak considers ulzuin as another traitor because of ulz’s ragequit destruction against the korvan capital. so korvaak doesn’t care about ulz since ulz’s nowhere to be found and the 3 goons are constantly being a pain to his celestial loincloth posterior…
what if in gd2 ulz and his cult sprang out of nowhere, becoming the chaotic independent faction that joins the fray whenever there are wars that caused a lot of destruction?
speaking of destruction and vengeance… that’s awfully close to the c’hthonians’ hobbies (torture & slaughter)… dreeg in his korvan elegy note states that ulz’ immortal heart must be ‘shattered’ by extinguishing his flame from the path to korvaak… and remember the 1st celestial that got shattered? c’hthon. who got shattered so hard by empyrion, a dimension (the void) was created to hold pieces of him and ‘failed’ creations of celestials. ulz could be teetering close to the void, his mind almost shattered like c’hthon.
or… since destruction is also close to the definition of entropy… ulz could have fallen into depression at some point. and he gave up living his life. only focusing on vengeance. and accepting yugol’s hungry entropic embrace in the future. like a star that’s nearing the end of its life. its flame extinguished. cue for cold-themed ulzuin set. vengeance is a dish best served cold after all!
or maybe ulz is hanging out with a hidden cell of the luminari inquisition. since the luminari had done an uncountable amount of purges against heretical/‘heretical’ cults across cairn for many, many years in erulan history. kinda fitting for his theme of destructive vengeance against bysmiel’s kind (witches dabbling with dark magics). the luminari inquisitor class’ questionable emphasis on gunslingers with explodey traps are also very similar to the demolitionist class’ standard behavior procedures… another point to the theory that ulz had connection to the luminari inquisition… the gunpowders & explosives speaks for themselves…
or maybe ulz is pulled into all directions at the same time because he’s confused how to live his life after korvan empire’s fall & bysmiel’s keikaku (just as planned)… snap and shatter like c’hthon? sulk and hide like morgoneth? RAGE and JUDGE like luminari inquisition? seek tranquility like king rowan? give explosives to grobles/half-trolls for lulz? BURN Lokarr for calling him a disappointment all the time? Bless that taken with explosive build against bosses with explosive powers so that cairn explode player’s pc? so many possibilities for ulzuin…
One also has to wonder how ulzuin went missing from the map after all that RAGEQUIT. ulzuin was secretly a nightblade! gasp. with that excellent sudden ninja skill, maybe ulzuin is ulgrim after all??? who knows!
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Humm mayhap…but seems he is Oleron after all hehehe
what about 3 witch gods brainwashed him , erase his memories (if they have such a power may be dreg ) and make him their servants?? Riggs anybody? we dont know who Riggs is … may be he is our İlzuin …now collecting stuffs for 3 witch gods…any thoughts ??
it might be possible that the 3 sandwitches brainwashed ulzuin without him knowing it. so riggs might have a connection to ulz too. but riggs seems to be just a random trade master that works like lokarr. not a person that revel in vengeance & destruction.
ulz theories will be over9000 until crate reveal gd 2 i think. so for now just accept the best ulz theories each of us prefer.
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Do you think Ch’thon and his followers know about Yugol? What do they think about it? Ch’thon is the only Elder God, isn’t he? Other gods descended from him. Perhaps Ch’thon and Yugol are the very first creatures in existence and they know about each other? Could Ch’thon restrain Yugol before betraying by his children? Or was Yugol simply eating other galaxies / universes?
there’s no info about how ch’thon was like before empy shatters him to bazillion pokemon pieces. no info about ch’thon’s knowledge about yugol. the bloodsworn had no interest in talking to the taken and the resistance, unlike the aetherials in which some of their members are willing to converse & offer insight to what’s what(cronley, anasteria, korinia, allostria, hagarrond)
maybe in gd2.
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I became friends with the servants of the Wendigo and Mogdrogden said it was a bad idea. Does anyone know if he will have special dialogues when summoning the Ravager? And what will he say if you kill the Ravager?
He will say that there’s hope for humanity if our mortal protagonist could defeat him.
Not much of a lore, but a neat detail I found just now! If you revisit the room in Steelcap District where a woman and wounded man hide (and he refuses to go through Rift) later, you’ll find “human remains” in place where he died.
Whoever in Crate thought about that, know this: I like you! =)
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I just killed Mage Morgoneth and I found only one of his notes and he says there about his artifact (the source of eternal night), which will consume the stars and that the great devourer will no longer hold back.
So, is he Yugol’s servant?
And where do we fight him? I mean, you can see purple space and tentacles in the background. What is it?
morgoneth is yugol’s willing servant. the key word here is ‘willing’. here’s my theory on morgoneth’s fall into yugol’s embrace based on the morgoneth questline’s lore notes & other hints:
in the times after the war of the gods, empyrion & korvaak’s celestial forces were almost utterly annihilated by the ch’thonians, with korvaak, ulzuin, mogdrogen & ravager as the only currently known celestial survivors residing in cairn.
korvaak had to retreat to his eldritch realm for a long time to lick his wounds, with ulzuin acting as his right hand in the cairn physical world to guard the korvan empire, also with dreeg who was punished forever to keep any other mortals from prying into the eldritch realm.
due to the war of the gods, it could be presumed that a lot of celestials and ascendants that had connections to cairn was destroyed or had their powers scattered over the universe. the loss of many of these celestials and ascendants are what cause the korvan empire to wane from its golden age. many worshippers of various korvan pantheons started to feel this loss of connection to their patron celestials & ascendants.
morgoneth was an important figure in the ateph (korvan moon god/ascendant) cult. he greatly felt the loss of connection to ateph’s presence. and almost like dreeg, he began to obsessively search for any means to reconnect with his god. even through heretical ways. this eventually lead him to discover the secret about yugol.
yugol could not be described accurately as a being. yugol is more like a concept. the concept of entrophy. of nothingness. it is the antithesis of existence. the celestials feared yugol greatly, because it symbolises the death of their immortality. the ‘heat death’ of the universe. the shattered realm is one of the examples of a realm that was almost completely consumed by yugol’s eternal night. yugol’s tentacles are the physical manifestation of yugol’s entropic presence.
morgoneth, having learned of yugol’s existence and the constant rot of the universe until yugol consumes everything, falls into despair completely. causing yugol’s influence to fully engulf him, thereby turning him insane, believing that to exist is to suffer eternally. so he tried to make the beacon of the night to invite yugol directly into cairn and force everyone into eternal ‘blissful’ sleep under the cover of yugol’s night.
korvaak knows the danger of knowing yugol’s existence to the mortal mind. so he put a very strict ‘inquisition’-like order to the ateph cult’s assassins to secretly destroy morgoneth’s cult completely asap. but they were unable to destroy morgoneth’s cult, so instead, they sealed morgoneth’s compound completely with layers upon layers of locks to make sure morgoneth’s heresy was completely forgotten to cairn forever.
basically morgoneth is a terrorist prophet of a doomsday cult with access to worldwide tentacle icbm.
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