SPOILER ALERT: Lore Discussion

WOW …THAT WAS…a speculation …better than mine…but still I will stick Ulzuin -Eluran empire theory :slight_smile:

1 Like

I’m not going to quote everything, so I’m just going to put thoughts.

Regarding Bysmiel:

I absolutely don’t think that she’s a Aetherial. It would not make any sense. I know Zantai said in a stream that the AoM loading girl was not a Aetherial.

She has done things to help the Erulan survivors, but mostly for the benefit of the Witch Gods.

Regarding the Grim Dawn:

Due to what happened in the War of the Gods, the Aetherials were banished to the Aether and striped of their physical form. If you talk to Anasteria, than you know how the Aetherials managed to eventually to breach the veil and prepare for the Grim Dawn. Also if you met and talked with Allostria (the Aetherial who possessed you).

my speculation is just dark-soul-style speculation. fumbling around in the dark with hundreds of death until every scrap of vague lore is connected with makeshift duct tape.

it is also possible that ulzuin left korvan lands before the 3 capture him, and secretly hide among the erulan tribes, guiding the tribes’ ascension until they become a gigantic empire.

ulgrim and the erulan emperor/heir probably has some connection to this. creed has some suspicion about ulgrim being a famous ascendant after all.

yea, bysmiel is very unlikely to be an aetherial. due to her cunning and humanlike nature. her title matron of the veil is probably emphasized on her taking aetherial powers from the aetherhold to be used for her own end (and against the aetherial invaders themselves). if an aetherial tries to possess her, she’ll just laugh and let her spiders-crows-hounds chow on the aetherial until it become a harmless power up for her.

i think she has pretty strong connection to death’s vigil, since the vigil always deal with things related to aetherial power in order to enhance their necromantic powers (necro mastery heavily emphasis aether/vitality damage). also, the vigil asks us to hunt aetherial invaders however we can to gain the vigil’s trust.

it’d be pretty interesting to know her real age. due to her strong necromantic powers, it is possible she’s around uroboruuk’s age, or even older.

who knows, the taken could be one of her descendants…

Did he??? humm Ok… may be she is not Aetherial but I am not convince she is also a mare priestess at temple…I still believe she is different kind …:slight_smile:

That is seems possible to me … But I suspect Ulgrim is Oleron, war god…

oleron is the patron deity (or ascendant, or demigod, its confusing) of the black legion. oleron might have 1st appeared at the time erulan tribes start expanding into an empire.

oleron is kinda different from ulgrim. oleron fights to protect his nation. to the point of losing himself to battle fury to bury his sadness for his civilian family becoming war casualty due to his decision to prioritize his nation’s safety. oleron’s story is pretty much the embodiment of all black legion member who is mind-conditioned to protect the erulan empire at all costs.

meanwhile, ulgrim does care about the safety of erulan empire too. being the emperor’s 1st blade he always is. but he despise the black legion’s method of sacrificing civilians as collateral damage to achieve their objectives without 2nd thought. this is kinda different from oleron. ulgrim still prioritize civilians over his nation if he can find a way to safe them.

also, ulgrim is a cold, calculating cunning assassin. while oleron is a berserker.
maybe ulgrim subconsciously know about oleron’s fate. he and creed still keeps a lot of secrets from us.

also, ulgrim is the best chef around. any dishes oleron makes would taste salty and charred due to his grief & fury.

1 Like

Mayabe Ulgrim is god of chefs :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

1 Like

It is hard to make sense of, I agree. My best guess would be: Elder God > Primordial God > Titan / God > Demigod > Ascendant. Yugol would fall somewhere around Elder and Primordial. The general idea seems to draw from a variety of sources.

The problem is there simply isn’t enough reliable information to determine what most entities are. Oleron seems to have been a human ascendant turned demigod. Ulgrim, still on Cairn, is an ascendant. Mogdrogen is interchangeably referred to as a god, titan and demigod. Lokarr is referred to as a demigod. Ulzuin a god.

My own opinion is Bysmiel, Solael and Uroboruuk are just powerful humans. I’m not sure what Dreeg is–he’s probably around the same level as an ascendant based on my best guess.

2 Likes

does that mean the grim dawn universe is dying? because it seems we mostly got ascendants and demigods lying around. with most titans/god like mogdrogen stays in hiding most of the time or just vanishing, and the primordial gods that still shows its existence like korvaak/chthon are insane/fragmented beyond reason.

unless some ascendants/demigods can ascend to the level of titan. i dunno what dreeg really means by maintaining the balance. maybe gd universe will be reborn again like dark souls universe, where the age of flame will always fall into the age of darkness, then a new cycle began.

We know for certain that dreeg was human, after he breached the veil and gazed on the eldritch realm, korvak punished him by turning him in his guardian watching over his realm so that no other human can ever achieve what dreeg did (this was before the war of the gods), after the war, once korvak’s power was depleted, mostly, dreeg basicly orchestrated his masters banishment, he was the one that alowed solael and bysmiel in the eldritch realm.
I think that all of them are/were human, we know that solael and bysmiel had an affair (from the atendant in the secret quest temple), so i doubt that aethirials or other entity’s would care for such things.

1 Like

It would not make sense for Dreeg to have been transformed before the war. That would make him older than Mogdrogen and break most of the established timeline. Korvaak also drops an item which portrays the war having happened before and Dreeg was punished for seeing Korvaak in his weakened state due to the war.

As far as Dreeg, what I meant was that I’m not sure how to really classify him following his transformation by Korvaak. It’s possible he somehow was able to revert his form but I doubt it.

As I’ve said before, I don’t think he’s much more powerful than Solael or Bysmiel but I do think he probably gained some innate power from Korvaak when he was changed. It’s for that reason I’m inclined to think he’s the most powerful of the Three, but that power may not always be immediately or even necessarily useful.

I’m assuming Dreeg’s ultimate goal (or hope) is to help guide or dictate the outcome of all foreseeable events so that the end-state is one where everything can just coexist. That’s how I interpreted his statements about balance.

It’s not terribly unlike a comment Mogdrogen makes about guiding the Rovers (his chosen people).

1 Like

moggy-dragon pretty much hog the rhowari to himself. though he doesn’t comment on the rhowaris who tries to actively defend themselves and attack chronic laugh syndrome’s gang. he’s not stupid though. just cautious in general.

though with how korvaak was banished and the 3 reascended, he seems to be stricken with disbelief for mankind’s capability to do weird stuff. he might change his modus operandi to be more aggressive in the future.

speaking about balance, its a pretty funny coincidence that the centre-ly located crossroad constellation is shaped like a ball with several spikes jutting out. kinda like dreeg’s theme about round eyeballs filled with jutting sharp acid spikes.

dreeg’s obsession with the path of dreeg (balance in all things) kinda makes me wonder if he’s trying to ascend to become the concept of balance itself. it might be possible in the universe of gd. just like how madoka from puella magi madoka magica ascends into the concept of hope for all magical girl to combat the concept of despair.

Well from the lore note “Korvan Elegy - Part 2” it would seem Dreeg was the guardian before the war, since he speaks of “the one that holds the leash” aka Korvak being wounded now :stuck_out_tongue:
Capture

Well to be honest, we don’t know how long the war took. Dreeg merely saw a opportunity when he was aware of Solael.

I have discussed it before but i still find it odd that in the note “Ruminations of the Primordial One” there is not a single mention of Ulzaad.

True it could have lasted a very long time, even centuries, either way dreeg was around before korvak got knocked down so either before or during the war

Regarding gods.

Primordial= A god that was there before the mortal planes. One that can create stuff.

Ascendant = One who was mortal before, but now is a god.

Titan = Ascendant/god with significant powers. Even Mogdrogen claimed to be a Ascendant.

Demi-God = Child between a God and a mortal?

2 Likes

In GD’s context demi-god seems to refer mostly to power level? Thats the vibe i get from it at least.
So kinda like an Ascendant that hasn’t hit the max potential

i think the war of the gods has gone on for a very, very long time. perhaps even before cairn was created. because mop dragon’s asterkarn avatar says that all past events that culminate into grim dawn has been in motion for a very long time.

dreeg might have saw korvaak & empyrion’s pantheon of gods being desperate in their fights against chthon;s pantheon. then after korvaak punished/blessed him, he somewhat begrudgingly served korvaak to keep the eldritch realm a secrecy from mortals.

then he start plotting with the other two witches when korvaak clearly losing & wounded badly & empirion vanished (because dreeg wants himself and cairn to survive the war). perhaps dreeg reveal the truth about the state of the affair and the secret of the eldritch realm to sol & bys through dreams

funny thing is, the oathkeeper mastery shows tendency in its transmute skills to convert flame/physical damage (affinity with empyrion/korvaak) into poison/acid (affinity with dreeg and the eldritch realm)… implying that the age of old gods (empyrion/korvaak) has long passed, and now cairn have to rely on the 3 witch and the eldritch realm’s power to survive. even the emissary of the three who is previoulsy a priest of menhir knew about this (dreeg told him).

also there are more dreeg stuff in oathkeeper mastery compared to the other two witches. path of dreeg indeed!

1 Like

I am immediately reminded of this…

an ascendant reaching its max potential doesn’t always mean upgrading to the next level. in bloodborne, ascending to the max can turn your character into a baby squid. perhaps with unique cosmic power. but still, a squid is not human anymore.

planescape torment’s catchphrase comes to mind:

‘what can change the nature of man?’

in that game’s context, its about regret. and trying to redeem your crime upon countless reincarnation.

but in gd’s case, ascendancy. what does it mean to ascend?