Stuff that escaped war on phys res

Grim Dawn Public Test Discussion
10

Pants that don’t have Physical Resistance, especially MI Nemesis pants, are going to be at a huge disadvantage moving forward.

The craftable pants - Rimeguard and Stormguard - still have Physical Resistance, which raises the question as to why they get to retain Physical Resistance while everything else gets gutted. In the meantime, most pants get only 3% Physical Resistance, while Hellforged Legplates get a whopping 6%.

The fact that many sets still retain Physical Resistance (even if in lower numbers) pushes builds to make sets even more mandatory than ever before, as MI’s that would previously grant Physical Resistance and needed skill modifiers are no longer there. Forcing the players into acquiring sets to obtain Physical Resistance is horrible design and should be heavily considered among the playerbase as to what sort of balance should be reached between non-set builds and set builds.

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11

Sets consist of item slots that have % Physical Resist, this is nothing new and nothing has changed there, nor was % Physical Resist removed from non-set items in those slots.

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12

Eastern Oath better not lose physical resistance, that set already has to deal with low armor.

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13

Sets also contain great offensive bonuses, skill bonuses that are actually relevant to the build, and modifiers far better than what you can obtain in the head/amulet slots.

I’ll stick to what I know, and speak particularly regarding pet builds. Beastcaller’s Set takes up Chest, Shoulders and Head armor slots, and as it now gives 6% Physical Resistance, it’s an average of 3% for the Chest and Shoulders (the head slot seems to be inconsistent; Namadea’s Horns had their Phys Res modifiers removed, but Spectral Crown and Chosen Visage keep their Phys Res modifiers). For pets, in the shoulder slot, you either have Zantarin’s Mantle for Phys res or you have to beat a God. Chest slot has only Necrolord’s Shroud that gives Phys Res, so if you don’t use those particular skills, you’re pretty screwed.

Pants appear to be unaffected, but all the pet boots got gutted from Phys Res. Basically, the fewer items that grant Phys Res, the more important each slot becomes, and why take items that may have more potential offensive upside, but remove the possibility to get defensive upgrades, when you can have both offense and defense in a set?

Again, I’m only sticking to pets in particular, but I’m sure there are melee and caster builds that are disproportionally affected if they choose a non-set build over a set build. It’ll take time to assess the ripple effects this wave of changes will bring.

One more aside, Fateweaver’s Raiment provides up to 9% Phys Res, alongside a slew of other resistances. I’m sure you have plans to remove it, either from the proc or the chest piece itself.

14

Yes, well it’s also a pet set, so…and are you arguing for or against sets now based on those individual items? :laughing:

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15

Pets have only 3 marsteries, 1 mastery that fully work in endgame, 2 sets that work in endgame, 1-2 options for non-set pieces. And by “work” I mean not standard 65-66 or 75-76 SR farming.

The core difference beetween pet builds and non-pet builds: pets builds just can’t stack high values of armor/block/ADCtH/regen/flat absorb for pets. The only thing that somehow compensated it after 1.2 was a high phys res. That’s why Beastcaller Conjurer became almost the only option for endgame.

Also pets can’t avoid sunder in 99% of cases. As a result - they die. And then the boss completely switches to the player. Player without defensive buffs from pet, high armor/block/ADCtH/regen/flat absorb. The only thing that somehow compensated it was a high phys res.

And if we talking about working sets, this build in 1.2 is based on CDR regen and CDR phys res and Wendigo torem 5m buff zone. Bc w/o high phys res it can’t neither tank heavy hits from bosses, nor using totem/null/DA-OA shred: spirits just don’t have any taunt/high aggro skill. So, -40% phys res w/o any other options to survive under direct damage = build is dead.

16

Um…and where do they not…work?

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17

Supers and SR95+. True endgame is limited. And builders are mainly focused on this part of the game. Me too.

And no, I not complaining about pets death or constant resummoning. I also can press 13 bttn while running around, it’s ok. I’m complaining that pets on the start of PT can’t even survive longer than their CD time. No pets - no defensive buffs, no damage, no options to survive. And it was my maxed endgame builds with 30-60hs playtime in 1.2.

18

If that is your focus, that’s fine, but that is not what we balance around. Not to mention not only are pets effective at both, they are some of the strongest builds for deep SR progress, so I’m not sure what point you are trying to make.

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19

Try playing sets where pre this patch you must make up phys res in other ways, example Light’s Defender
Elementalist/Vindicator.
The phys res on mine is now nearly non-existent due to other ways to make up phys res now gone or reduced, and the armour is not enough for them to make up for the loss.

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20

I knew only a couple of pet builds that can really dive deep in SR. I also knew a couple of non-pet builds.

But I can’t remember a single pet build in 1.2 that can just stand still, use evade and kill Callly in less than a minute. But I know hundreds of such non-pet builds.

A little example from PT. Let’s say, I’ve been playing and working on this build for over 70 hours. And spent more than 1500 h on pet builds summary. And that’s the only reason I survive. The changes I made for PT - Stag + 1 pt in Hound instead of Turquois; maxed Infernal Breath for additional DR. Maybe, I’m doing something really wrong.

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21

When the set bolsters a skill (or pair of skills within masteries that do not mesh well, like Defiler or Saboteur) with otherwise meager support because of skill conversions or weak masteries needing additional strength, then it benefits the game.

When the set is so overbearing with its offensive and defensive synergies, as well as class synergies, that it overshadows everything that would otherwise compete with it, like Beastcaller’s does, then I take issue with it.

I didn’t mean for it to be a general pet discussion, that can be moved to the actual pet thread. I am more specifically calling out the fact that set pieces often grant Physical Resistance as a set bonus, if not within the set pieces themselves, while the non-set items that grant Physical Resistance have skill bonuses so all over the place that it provides no synergy with a build that needs both skill points and defensive capabilities.

Here’s a few examples taken from the chest pieces:

Elite Coven Wrath Vestments: Aether Oleron Rage! Oh yeah, and the other skill bonuses are Arcanist (which has Reckless Power) and Necromancer (Harbringer of Souls).

Chosen Raiment: Otherwise good item that has bonuses to Acid Canister Bomb…

Chosen Robes: Provides much needed Lightning to Aether conversion, but skill bonuses are to Storm Box (which will never be used as long as Light’s Defender exists) and Sigil of Consumption (but if you’re using AAR and Sigil together, you’re probably taking the Black Flame set?)

Mythical Deathbringer Raiment: Provides more valuable conversion (from Vitality to Aether), but come on, Inner Focus and Rune of Hagarrad?

Mythical Devil’s Cage Hauberk: Chaos War Cry! I guess Physical, too, but Warborn set makes the bonus practically obsolete.

Mythical Fiendscale Jacket: A great Vitality item, but if you’re not playing a Bloody Pox Conjurer / Cabalist, then the skill bonuses are completely useless.

Gildor’s Guard: A shield retaliation item that gives retal bonus on block, but give skill bonuses to Word of Renewal, Haven, and Blade Barrier. Outside of Haven, none of those fit with Shield Retaliation builds.

Mythical Heart of Yugol: Anatomy of Murder and Devouring Blades? Blade Trap is practically not used at all, Vitality Blade Trap is even worse.

Mythical Stormweave Armor: You’re either a Cold Shadow Strike Nightblade or the bonuses are completely wasted (Lightning Shadow Strike? Sorry, Stormserpent set takes up the Chest slot)

Mythical Venomancer’s Raiment: An example of a non-set item done correctly, gives both Physical Resistance and bonuses to skills an Acid player would want to actually use, well, expect for Resilience, that is.

Non-set items need good offensive or defensive synergy to be able to compete with the natural synergies sets bring, but a lot of these items are all over the place when it comes to skill bonuses. They really need better skill bonus distribution so that builds that naturally want to use the damage bonuses and really need the Physical resistance these items bring to the table can grab skill bonuses that would actually benefit their builds.

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22

Tbf, some bonuses have been added to support meme and niche non-set builds. It’s ok.

23

I find Lost Souls and Set-less Hellhounds to be on the same level as Beastcaller for superbosses atm, on Conjurer.

For Ritualist Diviner > Beastcaller, imo.

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24

Even within the meme options, it’s still not okay. Like, nobody on Earth is going to run a Ravenous Earth / Acid Canister Bomb Defiler with no class RR. If you’re running a meme skill like that, you’d want to combine it with another class that actually has the capabilities - whether through good passives or a supporting additional active skill that bolsters the meme skill - to help make such a niche option work.

I know that the team is trying to make a whole variety of skills and conversions work, but they need to make sense on the surface before trying to give such strange support.

25

I’ve yet to see evidence that this has become an issue, but if it becomes a problem, we’ll happily address it.

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26

This seems to be the place to throw up the question:

Why not just a blanket nerf for all items and devotions, all the values of phys res?

Then there wouldn’t be doubt if an item “escaped the nerf” unintentionally.

It would also put less pressure on devotions, pants, chest (and now boots), to provide phys res.

In general, giving every armor piece a fixed, non-variable 2% or 3% would kinda mean players naturally end up at the desired total amount, without having to min-max for it and without much potential for outliers “abusing” and stacking phys res to become invulnerable.

If everything had a fixed, small number, I could just use the boots, gloves, pants I actually want for the build, rather than mangling it to fit as much phys res as possible.

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27

I kind of asked and suggested the exactly same thing. It would achieve the same goal and not create such value disparity between items with phys res and without phys res.

28

Or reduce physical resist ceiling with no overcap possibility beyond this and the need to nerf every item is reduced; still makes sense to change some for the refocus of physical resist going forward.
Builds that easily reach this limit encourages item diversity.

29

Because that makes phys res a non-stat coming from a non-choice. If it’s just there passively, might as well remove it completely and change damage numbers accordingly.